Which melee class is good to have multiple in mythic group?

[Bigbazz]

It's a pretty trivial mechanic, doesn't require any real coordination to handle, and is more than likely a waste of a personal- especially on Heroic.

If you're melee, whoever they are, are dying to Infernal Tempest, you should probably replace them (because they are bad).

"Sorry dave, I know we're mates and you've been in the guild from the start but someone on the internet said we had to replace you because you were bad"


Their guild is 13/13hc and looking for advice to move into Mythic and you're still sitting there with your cutting edge mythic progression hat on, plenty of melee dps in mythic guilds died to this mechanic, especially when we weren't running around with extreme ilvl and healing was tight. Tactics of "loosely stacked" is not at all optimal for this during progression, more circles on the ground to worry about = more movement and more boss downtime.

You wanted one pool on the ground to worry about, if you're stacked enough for that then you're stacked enough that you're splashing damage on each other.

[Sonnillon]

Mythic teams should be constantly recruiting anyway, so they don't lose 1 or 2 members and get stuck doing heroic until they can replace lost talent.

We raid cross-realm so picking people for missing spots is not that big of an issue for us.

The bottom line is that having 2 rogues is good idea, along with DK and warrior in a group. It helps me to make decisions in choosing people bit easier, however I will not bench the rest of the cause they are "useless"

But thanks for the in-dept Tyrant discussion though everyone

[Fenrkyr]

Keep in mind that Gorefiends will not be part of the DPS DK toolkit in Legion. Unholy will likely be tuned to be a mid-level DPS so it won't be bad to have one, but you wouldn't stack multiple. Frost is complete garbage and will always be complete garbage so you don't want one of those. Rogues...I don't know how/if their toolkit is changing but if I had to pick one melee to double up on it would be rogue. While a warrior is really strong in burst AOE other classes can come close but no other class can allow you to bypass certain mechanics like a rogue. On the other hand if you have 5 mages the bosses will just die faster and there is really no drawback.

[Mercane]

You wanted one pool on the ground to worry about, if you're stacked enough for that then you're stacked enough that you're splashing damage on each other.

If you can find 16 people that can PERFECTLY stack in such a manner that a 2 yard mechanic will spash EVERY SINGLE ONE of them, recruit them all- that's some olympic synchronized swimming coordination.

Or maybe, you shouldn't use extremely unlikely situations and hyperbole as the lynchpin of your argument. Someone said 'Haha you can take an entire team of melee to Tyrant' and you jumped right on it, it's not ideal, everyone knows it's not ideal. However, in it's current state, if your melee players can't figure out how to deal with Infernal Tempest they don't belong on a team this late into Mythic Progression (It is a difficulty suited to bringing the best players you can possibly get, friends or not and not one where you wait for Joe to sort his life out until he FINALLY gets something right) maybe you should find someone that can. I'm not saying kick them because they messed up their first attempt ever on Tyrant, but if you're guild is over 100 wipes at this point- analyze logs, find out who your weak players are- and replace them.

Keep in mind that Gorefiends will not be part of the DPS DK toolkit in Legion.

Gorefiend's isn't going away, they're just making the CD longer.

[Sonrisa]

You are seriously on drugs if you think 16 melee would all survive tempest without some serious CD usage and melee range downtime. I heal that fight in melee and there's just no way they'd all live.

[Deleted]

Gorefiend's isn't going away, they're just making the CD longer.

It IS going away for frost and unholy - it's only available as a spell for blood in legion - check it out

[Sonnillon]

Thanks for the discussion and feedback guys. Sadly/luckily not too fussed about Legion raiding and group setup, cause we usually get to Mythic when the last tier is out anyway, so by that time lot of things might've been changed.

[Bigbazz]

If you can find 16 people that can PERFECTLY stack in such a manner that a 2 yard mechanic will spash EVERY SINGLE ONE of them, recruit them all- that's some olympic synchronized swimming coordination.

Or maybe, you shouldn't use extremely unlikely situations and hyperbole as the lynchpin of your argument. Someone said 'Haha you can take an entire team of melee to Tyrant' and you jumped right on it, it's not ideal, everyone knows it's not ideal. However, in it's current state, if your melee players can't figure out how to deal with Infernal Tempest they don't belong on a team this late into Mythic Progression (It is a difficulty suited to bringing the best players you can possibly get, friends or not and not one where you wait for Joe to sort his life out until he FINALLY gets something right) maybe you should find someone that can. I'm not saying kick them because they messed up their first attempt ever on Tyrant, but if you're guild is over 100 wipes at this point- analyze logs, find out who your weak players are- and replace them.



Gorefiend's isn't going away, they're just making the CD longer.

What are you talking about 16 players stacked? I'm talking about the melee dps, not almost the entire raid.

If you want an extreme melee group scenario? How about 2 tanks, 3 healers with 5 ranged and 10 melee... Pretty messed up raid comp right there but you'd have a nightmare if you tried to "losely spread/stack" the melee during tempest.. No what you would do is split them into 3 separate stacks of 3 players tightly stacked on top of each other, then they leave 1 pool under them per stack of players, probably having the odd 1 left over to move out alone. They would take more damage from the AOE but would move less and have better uptime on the boss, the trade off that every guild has used.


You talk about "this late into the tier" as if these guys have literally been raiding in HFC for the whole 6+ months that it has been out. Most people who are at this point now have barely scratched the surface, most people who were playing at HFC launch are probably not even playing WoW now or are selling Mythic boosts like us.

Naturally with gear inflation through the roof as with every expansion you will see more guilds pushing into later Mythic, and many of those players probably weren't even raiding at all when the patch first came out. I did it in SOO, I started raiding Mythic (heroic as it was) at the end of MOP, as I had not even been playing MOP until then it was all new to me.

[Mercane]

What are you talking about 16 players stacked? I'm talking about the melee dps, not almost the entire raid.

The 'example' given was a team full on Melee, like I said- it's extremely unlikely to be hugely successful with this setup, but I'm sure with enough gear it's possible.

But the splash damage hits other players within 2 yards, 2 yards is a tiny, tiny distance (like 5 people can be 2 yards apart on most small staircases in the game; 2 top, 2 bottom, one in the middle) and my point was natural player deviation will minimize splash damage.

You talk about "this late into the tier" as if these guys have literally been raiding in HFC for the whole 6+ months that it has been out. Most people who are at this point now have barely scratched the surface, most people who were playing at HFC launch are probably not even playing WoW now or are selling Mythic boosts like us.

I meant progression on the 10th boss, nothing was said about the length of the tier.

It IS going away for frost and unholy - it's only available as a spell for blood in legion - check it out

RIP.

[purebalance]

Not really planning to cheese anything for the pure reason that if there are no 2 rogues available for the night we could be fucked cause we are used to cheesing.

Reminds me of Heroic Anub "Well we only have 1 pally for BoP during submerge phase....we probably won't be raiding"

[Deleted]

Which of these classes would you take 2 to your mythic group over some other class and ranged DPS, whether it's per fight case or in general.

- retri pala (one is good OS healer)
- ww monk
- rogue

I do know that rogues, specially combat ones (based on reading mythic guides) are excellent to have for Assault. So based on that I would guess that rogues excel at AoE fights if they play combat. As for the rest 2 classes I have really no idea sadly. We have plenty of skilled hunters for soaking various stuff.

Rest of the melees of which we have 1 is warrior (who is our OS tank) and DK/Feral (who both will end up in a rotation for a spot anyway most probably).

Any agility based damage dealer is disgusting because of Mirror of the Blademaster from HFC council fight. The amount of damage this trinket alone on big aoe pulls is laughable. The trinket alone is easily 50% of the damage done, if not more.

From the CMs I've done, monks were usually brewmaster with Mirror. Their damage was really high and they could soak loads of damage due to stagger and could even offtank an odd or two for vengeance and lessen healing on some fights etc.

[Adramelch]

It's the Soul Cap that's the really disgusting one. Not to say Mirror isn't OP, but Soul Cap plays in a different field on its own.

[Gaidax]

Rogue easily, monk is basically a shitty rogue and ret paladin is pretty average.