450 of 452 suicide attacks in 2015 were by Muslim extremists, study shows

[Adam Jensen]

No, but what they believe in is completely mindless archaic garbage.

The reason we shouldn't let muslims in western countries is not because of the potential danger of terrorism but the fact they their belief system is a thousand years behind everything else, their customs are barbaric and there is absolutely no way you can retrain the first generation of immigrants.

They're a lost cause and I, personally, have zero interest in supporting any of these backwater fucktards.

Are they really a lost cause?

My supervisor at work is a Muslim refugee, albeit from Somalia rather than Syria. Been here for about ten years and is as American as the next. They can assimilate into our culture.

Maybe a few eggheads can't, but they're not all like that.

[Sama-81]

We have thousands of years of human history that backs up my claim. There are very few cases where when one group finally gains power, that they choose not to completely screw over their former oppressors. The only outlier that I can think of, is South Africa, where they actually managed to get along fairly well after a long bout of apartheid.

The western world doesn't really have any oppressors left though, at least not in the sense you are talking about. Also, it's a tad funny that you use South Africa as an example, since it is a particularly crappy one. For one, wasn't it Genocide Watch that, at least until recently, had them listed as the only nation with an ongoing genocide (as in black on white crime)? I kid you not, it was something along those lines. Also, for getting along so well, they had one hell of an impressive rise in murder rates, that's for sure. Not certain if they topped the chart entirely, but they were most certainly top three (for my part, I wouldn't mind including the results of their health minister condemning HIV in general and the use of condoms as a means to combat it as "a western conspiracy" in that, but that's just me). Nowadays latin american is hard to beat, of course. Either way, say want you want about South Africa, but they sure as hell didn't manage to get along "fairly well" in comparison to your average modern country.

[Kalis]

So a particular terrorist method, almost exclusively used by Muslim terrorists nowadays, was almost exclusively used by Muslim terrorists last year...golly gosh! What astonishing news.

Mhm, suicide bombing didn't start with muslims though. If you did this study 50 years ago it would have been Israeli extremist jews. If you did it 30 years ago it would have been Irish extremist catholics. Extremist muslims have just taken it up as their flavor of the month tactic. It's not religion based, it's political agenda based. They do it because they've learned from the extremists of the past that it is an effective tactic to achieve their political goal.

Studies like this are misleading at best, fear-mongering at worst.

Not true.

Irish Catholic extremists rarely (if ever) used suicide bombing, their preferred tactics were more traditional terrorist methods, like planting a bomb or shooting at people, not suicide attacks.

[Sama-81]

So we should be dictating laws, laws fitting of western sensibilities, on non western nations? And then which western laws do we force on the likes of Egypt? I mean, can they keep capital punishment? Barbaric to many in the west, but essential to other westerners.

Where do we draw the line of western intervention? Tackling terrorism is in interest of all nations, but should us westerners be telling other countries how they should live their lives?

There are many elements to sharia that most certainly is extremist, and what is needed for proof (and the punishments, for that matter) to condemn women are at times tantamount to the age old christian inquisition burning people as witches. One can of course be fine with that, and I'm in no mood to argue either point, my interest lay mainly in the western, civilized world. But that it is extremist (and exceptionally primitive) to base all laws on a ~1500-yo book, as being the literal word of God, is rather undebatable imo.

[zenkai]

I'm a bit lost here. What does her speech have to do with Christianity?

Not a thing at all, it's just the old tactic when people have no counter argument they sideways argue, make a point that has nothing to do with the original point.

[Machismo]

The western world doesn't really have any oppressors left though, at least not in the sense you are talking about. Also, it's a tad funny that you use South Africa as an example, since it is a particularly crappy one. For one, wasn't it Genocide Watch that, at least until recently, had them listed as the only nation with an ongoing genocide (as in black on white crime)? I kid you not, it was something along those lines. Also, for getting along so well, they had one hell of an impressive rise in murder rates, that's for sure. Not certain if they topped the chart entirely, but they were most certainly top three (for my part, I wouldn't mind including the results of their health minister condemning HIV in general and the use of condoms as a means to combat it as "a western conspiracy" in that, but that's just me). Nowadays latin american is hard to beat, of course. Either way, say want you want about South Africa, but they sure as hell didn't manage to get along "fairly well" in comparison to your average modern country.

South Africa is very violent, that is absolutely true. However, it is not something that is regularly sanctioned by a government. There is definitely racial tension in that country, and will be long after I'm dead and gone. As for the increase in murder rate, that is not really the case. Murders weren't often reported under apartheid in the first place.

The west does have plenty of oppression, they just don't tend to resort to actual murder. Any law which restricts a victimless action is oppression. What the western world has, is peace (or at least they fight wars elsewhere), but that does not mean they do not have oppression.

[Sama-81]

Don't tell the Christians in America that thsi is not a Christian nation, they will go nuts.

Why would I? I even, explicitly, said that they are. Being a christian (or muslim) nation however, in itself, isn't a sign of extremism, neither does it imply that their military acts due to religious reasons.

As for laying responsibility, I am going out of my way to lay responsibility at the feet of both religions, that's the point. We want to point the finger at Muslims, and say that they are the problem. I hate to break it to people, but Christianity is also the problem. Far too many people think that it is the solution.

And I go out of my way to lay responsibility where it is due. Yes, christianity is a part of the problem - nowhere near as much as islam is, though, in regards to terrorism and overall religious extremism. I'm actually rather neutral in regards to this, believe it or not (fully understand if you don't), but in order to come up with constructive solutions to a very large global problem, one can not shift around blame so it is equally placed just to not upset someone, or in general hurt their feelings.

[Deleted]

I wonder. When there is an outbreak in a city let's name it city A. An outbreak of Black Death, uncureable disease which may lead to many unnecessary deaths..... the city is isolated, it's closed nobody can get outside, and only few can get inside, to let's say treat it.

Not EVERYONE in the city is ill but, the rest of the world/country does not want to take the risk of spreading the disease, so they treat EVERY person of city A as someone who might be ill. There is no fight for the rights of the sick or whatever because we know, we can get killed in the proess if we let them spread to our cities. Isolation is taken off when the city is HEALED and there are no more signs of disease.

However, when it turns down to muslims, we are doing the opposite altough the consequences might be the same. If there are 450 suicidal bombers out of 452,and all of them are muslims, then there is some kind of problem with islam. So why, instead of isolate them as potentially contagious, we take them to our cities, give them stuff and rights sometimes even we don't have. That lacks logic, to say the lest.

Isolate them, let them deal with their terrorism problem on their own, or wth our help and when they are free of it, accept them without risk

[Stop Pretending]

These stastics obviously show that statistics are racist themselves. /sarcasm off.

[Machismo]

Why would I? I even, explicitly, said that they are. Being a christian (or muslim) nation however, in itself, isn't a sign of extremism, neither does it imply that their military acts due to religious reasons.





And I go out of my way to lay responsibility where it is due. Yes, christianity is a part of the problem - nowhere near as much as islam is, though, in regards to terrorism and overall religious extremism. I'm actually rather neutral in regards to this, believe it or not (fully understand if you don't), but in order to come up with constructive solutions to a very large global problem, one can not shift around blame so it is equally placed just to not upset someone, or in general hurt their feelings.

I never said it should be equally placed, I merely wanted to ensure that it was not ignored. In may aspects, Islam is far more violent and lethal than Christianity. Of course, in some aspects, Christianity, with it's control of powerful governments, can even be worse. That is why I do not consider just Islam to be a problem, I consider all organize religion to be a problem. Quibbling over which is more oppressive, seems like an exercise in uselessness. No oppression should be toerated, regardless of the degree or scope.

[dd614]

Liberals be like, "See, other religions do it, too!!!!!"

[Sama-81]

The west does have plenty of oppression, they just don't tend to resort to actual murder. Any law which restricts a victimless action is oppression. What the western world has, is peace (or at least they fight wars elsewhere), but that does not mean they do not have oppression.

With "in the way you refer to it" (or however I put it, was along those lines), I meant actual violence and such, and I disagree with the "completely screw over"-part. Otherwise I tend to agree with you. Even here in oh-so-democratic Sweden, the political majority happily ignores the spirit of democracy to effectively exclude the elements that opposes them, on issues where they really do not want to be challenged, from all forms of power - popular vote be damned (well, as long as it's 49% or less), not to mention whether or not a majority is against them in that particular issue to begin with...

[Machismo]

With "in the way you refer to it" (or however I put it, was along those lines), I meant actual violence and such, and I disagree with the "completely screw over"-part. Otherwise I tend to agree with you. Even here in oh-so-democratic Sweden, the political majority happily ignores the spirit of democracy to effectively exclude the elements that opposes them, on issues where they really do not want to be challenged, from all forms of power - popular vote be damned (well, as long as it's 49% or less), not to mention whether or not a majority is against them in that particular issue to begin with...

Democracy is the surest path to oppression.

[Kalis]

There never were any ira suicide bombers, unless you count accidental activation.

I didn't want to say none in case there was one, but I can't recall any suicide attacks by the IRA, UVF, or any of the other terrorist groups in Northern Ireland.

I can't think of any suicide attacks in the UK other than the London Underground bombings and the attempt at Glasgow Airport.

[Sama-81]

If your interest is in the western "civilised"(?) world, it may interest you to know that the vast majority of Muslims don't support Isis and or wider Islamic terrorism. This is important because it tells you that we, the western world, have nothing to fear of 99.999% of Muslims. I link this article again, maybe read it this time, you never know you may learn something.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...dain-for-isis/

It doesn't particularly benefit us, that the middle east is in flames due to religious extremism (which of course some western countries have some responsibility for), now does it. Just look at the stream of refugees lately, costing (in particular, my nation) insane amounts, or the terrorist attacks (that while not dangerous to society in their own right, tends to change society into something less good due to the fear of them). I of course already realize that the majority of muslims don't support ISIS, and I also realize that waaay too many of them do support them, for things to be anywhere near fine and dandy. Neither do I fear muslims as a group, if you were afraid of that, then I can reassure you - that is not the case at all. I have no gripe with individuals identifying as muslims in general, not at all.

[unbound]

So a few things to consider.

- There were 450 suicide bombers that were Islamic last year. That means 0.000028125% of Muslims. Not very impressive when you put that in context is it?
- At the highest estimates, there are 200,000 ISIS fighters. This is 0.0125% of Muslims. Not only not a majority, but not even a significant percentage of the Muslim population.
- Christian terrorism is less common, but almost completely ignored in western media. We tend to ignore it, or try to call it something different to make ourselves feel better. Everyone knows about ISIS or other Muslim extremist groups, but simply aren't exposed to groups like The Army of God, Eastern Lightning, Lord's Resistance Army, National Liberation Front of Tripura, Phineas Priesthood, or Concerned Christians either in their heyday (actually relatively recent for most of them) or even pointing out the relationship with recent issues (e.g. the guy that shot up Austin, TX late in 2014 was a member of the Phineas Priesthood). And there are plenty of Christian hate groups that just haven't quite crossed the line (e.g. Westboro Baptist Church) or Christian groups that keep their crimes to themselves (e.g. Catholic rape scandals).
- Need a more current example of a Christian suicide-bomb attempt that didn't get much Western press at all? Read about the Richard White (devout Jehovah's Witness) attempt at the New Orleans Airport last March 20th ( http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...cene/25136201/ ). Of course, the excuses we'll level in the US by a Christian terrorist will range from Not A True Christian to mental illness.


With that context in mind:
- Why do people think all Muslims are an issue?
- From a Muslim point of view, should they view Christians any differently?
- If you are Christian, do the Christian terrorists represent you? If not, why do you think Muslim terrorists represent all Muslims?

Yes, Muslim philosophy and Sharia law is certainly barbaric from a modern point of view. It would certainly be good if we stopped religious nonsense from being part of the secular legal system. But we can't be hypocrites ourselves and ignore what we are doing in the US which is pushing increasingly towards Christian versions of Sharia law. A number of states aren't that far from having their own Savita Halappanar events ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ort-finds.html ).

[Orange Joe]

Yeah, I would not ever expect people who follow a book such as this one to be violent.

How could that ever be?

I can get you many quotes of the same type from the bible.

[zenkai]

So a few things to consider.

- There were 450 suicide bombers that were Islamic last year. That means 0.000028125% of Muslims. Not very impressive when you put that in context is it?
- At the highest estimates, there are 200,000 ISIS fighters. This is 0.0125% of Muslims. Not only not a majority, but not even a significant percentage of the Muslim population.
- Christian terrorism is less common, but almost completely ignored in western media. We tend to ignore it, or try to call it something different to make ourselves feel better. Everyone knows about ISIS or other Muslim extremist groups, but simply aren't exposed to groups like The Army of God, Eastern Lightning, Lord's Resistance Army, National Liberation Front of Tripura, Phineas Priesthood, or Concerned Christians either in their heyday (actually relatively recent for most of them) or even pointing out the relationship with recent issues (e.g. the guy that shot up Austin, TX late in 2014 was a member of the Phineas Priesthood). And there are plenty of Christian hate groups that just haven't quite crossed the line (e.g. Westboro Baptist Church) or Christian groups that keep their crimes to themselves (e.g. Catholic rape scandals).
- Need a more current example of a Christian suicide-bomb attempt that didn't get much Western press at all? Read about the Richard White (devout Jehovah's Witness) attempt at the New Orleans Airport last March 20th ( http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...cene/25136201/ ). Of course, the excuses we'll level in the US by a Christian terrorist will range from Not A True Christian to mental illness.


With that context in mind:
- Why do people think all Muslims are an issue?
- From a Muslim point of view, should they view Christians any differently?
- If you are Christian, do the Christian terrorists represent you? If not, why do you think Muslim terrorists represent all Muslims?

Yes, Muslim philosophy and Sharia law is certainly barbaric from a modern point of view. It would certainly be good if we stopped religious nonsense from being part of the secular legal system. But we can't be hypocrites ourselves and ignore what we are doing in the US which is pushing increasingly towards Christian versions of Sharia law. A number of states aren't that far from having their own Savita Halappanar events ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ort-finds.html ).

1. I think most logical people know its Extremist that are the problems, not your every day Muslim, if that was true the world would be in Chaos.
2. if you mean Christian Extremest... no
3. No they don't, Christian means to live like Christ, I don't think Christ ever went around and told you to murder innocent people. This includes shooting up an abortion clinic.

- - - Updated - - -

I can get you many quotes of the same type from the bible.

Do it then, and why would one excuse the other? That's a childish argument.
"Son I just caught you stealing"
"Dad, my brother does it too!"

[Machismo]

1. I think most logical people know its Extremist that are the problems, not your every day Muslim, if that was true the world would be in Chaos.
2. if you mean Christian Extremest... no
3. No they don't, Christian means to live like Christ, I don't think Christ ever went around and told you to murder innocent people. This includes shooting up an abortion clinic.

- - - Updated - - -



Do it then, and why would one excuse the other? That's a childish argument.
"Son I just caught you stealing"
"Dad, my brother does it too!"

If you think that Christianity does not promote violence, then you may want to take the calls for violence out of the Bible.

[Darsithis]

This has just been a big discussion of religion, which isn't allowed here.