Mythic Gorefiend

[SimonVonLagMaat]

Howdy folks,

I'm the raid leader of a small guild that built itself out of a couple friends this expansion. We're decent raiders, I think so at least, no hugely obvious weak links that we don't know about and remove if fights aren't going our way.

Anyway, we started our first full night on Mythic Gorefiend, and he gave us the banana hammock.

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/combat...ic#be=overview

Logs of the fight.

Our raid comp was sort of in flux all night we essentially had:

Two, geared not high damage pally tanks
4 healers, Hpally, MW, holy/disc, and a Rdruid
2 rogues, 2 dks, 2 warriors, 1 monk (Eventually left for personal reasons)
3 hunters as part of our raid group, 1 pug hunter, 1 pug boomkin, 1 Spriest that mains as a disc

We had the stack target to the left of gorefiend, for shadow control, which was a hunter/Fdk team. We only got to the first feast in any kind of order on one pull. Really saddened my Raid leader vibe. Looking for any advice.

Edit: World of logs https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hRkC6xMWPDQYfVGv/

[Nitros14]

Gorefiend is dramatically harder than anything before him. The only boss we wiped on more was mythic Mannoroth.

Hard to tell from logs but the main causes of wipes on Gorefiend are

1: Too much cleave on souls. If your souls aren't dying sub 6 seconds left on their timer you're probably not getting enough time down there to control adds. Tell people to stop using anything that cleaves, gorefiend's hitbox is enormous and will cleave onto souls easily.

2: Souls not dying on time. We have three melee jump in the pool at the start and get broken immediately so they can spend the entire encounter slowly whittling souls down then bursting them at 5 seconds. We call when people are sub 10 seconds so everyone not doing something else can kill them in a few seconds.

Death knights are ideal for souls because they can use necrotic plague to bring them low over time. Warriors are also nice to execute them.

Other things to stress are actually die in the right spot and not in some weird spot where it's hard to get you out. DPS on the boss is completely irrelevant in phase 1, everything should be focused on add control.

Emphasize staying near the boss while maintaining the six yard spread, there's no reason to be far away putting shared fate in idiotic places and taking tons of doom well damage.

We five healed our first kill, seemed to eliminate a lot of random deaths and greatly eased the feast. DPS requirement for Gorefiend is actually quite low if you do it right. Depending on your dps you might want to try that.

Also it's a good idea to sacrifice people to help control the stomach. For our part, we sacrifice the three melee for soul control at the start, then one hunter 10 seconds in to kill the big spirit down below, then another ranged dps 30 seconds in to clear all skeletons so dps up top can focus the spirit. You can sac six people technically without shadow of death causing issues but saccing five leaves room for error.

Video of our first kill if it helps

[spikeh]

Having two stack markers, one for dps and one for healers, may be helpful to those assigned to soul breaking duty since the two roles go in at separate times.

You must enforce a policy of zero cleave on this boss. This means no AoE trinkets like Prophecy or Gaze, no cleave abilities like Chimera Shot, no Starfall and etc. Your PUG hunter and boomkin probably went ham on the souls.

[Crillam]

This boss is all about add control. My guild uses 1 position to leave our souls on and a warrior that takes care of it with some help from a shadow priest, the priest also kills the souls that sometimes fails and dont get to the mark in time. This is very important that no one else cleavs so make sure not use wrong kind of spells and trinkets.

Then about the adds we prio spell caster>tank>melee. When it comes to the tank add only melees kills it. Thats like it, it is very simple just have control. Also some more tips is if you have shamans in your raid make them spec windwalk totem so if the caster add manage to cast one spell you can just remove everyone slow with it.

[markos82]

After some 60+ wipes we realized that it was best to use moonkins to free souls and with them ( I was the one ) we managed to kill him easy without any problems.
The key for killing him is controlling the adds and not getting souls out fast ( you mustn't take them out with more than 8 sec left on timer ).

You can do it with only one stacking point for dps/healers and one for tanks.
When the adds come ALL DPS ON BOSS STOPS and the dps on adds starts. Everyone is on adds except people who are on soul duty but they also need to help from time to time.
When the first big add come kill him fast, 2nd will die during feast when ring explodes. Since dps in feast is crucial save cds that are longer than 2 min. stack during feast and assign order to collect sparks, everyone needs to do it since each sparks that's goes through will reduce the timer you have in feast. You can leave people assign to free people ( kill souls ) with debuff, that means they will never be targeted and be taken into stomach.

Since controlling the souls is the key no one can use cleave on boss else there is a chance it will go to souls and eventually you will get overuned by adds. So no trinkets that can cleave, no Chimera shot and so on. Also one thing that can help you, dont kill adds in stomach, if you kill them new one will spawn almost instantly, instead get then to 20-30%

[Deja Thoris]

Also one thing that can help you, dont kill adds in stomach, if you kill them new one will spawn almost instantly, instead get then to 20-30%

Most of your advice is bad. This is TERRIBLE. It's simply not true. Theres ~25 adds each normal phase no matter what. The reason people prefer to get them low is that executes for destro locks and priests etc generate resources and its easier to kil two constructs at 50% HP rather than one at full HP.

Also, boomkins as a class to free souls? I can't think of many worse classes. Boomkins are worse than anything I can imagine when it comes to mobility. Starfire and wrath take an age to cast and if you have doom / a link or are being chased you can only rely on starsurge.

Also yea, lets completely overkill a tank add with a ring explosion. Wasted damage is good right?

@ The OP, please link warcraftlogs (they aren't uploaded there atm) I find AMR logs gibberish. Its' very easy to identify problems on warcraftlogs.

[Kanika]

Most of your advice is bad. This is TERRIBLE. It's simply not true.

+1 to this, lol.

I saw this theory for the first time a week or so ago, but I dont understand why its cropping up more often now. As Deja said, it's more effective use of dps to leave them at 20% health roughly as they can be finished quickly on the outside and you can move on to another. Same applied to the healing adds - just heal to 80% and move on to the next.

This fight is really about a few vital components that you *NEED* to go right, then it becomes quite trivial. Unfortunately due to the random nature of a lot of the mechanics, it is one of those that you really have to stick with until everyone gets it, stops panicking, and pulls the amount of damage/healing they need to actually down it.

As plenty have said already - make sure you maximise the time the people have in the belly, and they do as much damage to as many adds as possible. Breaking people out prematurely is bad for everyone. So whoever you assign to do this - let them get the hang of it and thats a big chunk of your fight taken care of.

Secondly, make sure people are picking a spot, and staying in it - moving only if they need to avoid damage, drop a well, or break chains. Then they move back to their own space and be aware of those around them. Setting a range radar to /6 helps with this.

In P1 - everyone should be fully focusing on killing the adds that spawn - not hitting gorefiend. It doesnt matter 1 bit if he doesnt even shift a percent until the first feast, as long as you're controlling that phase properly and are ready with everyone alive and ready to go in p2.

As its already been mentioned - cleave is a big no-no. Get rid of aoe talents and trinkets, and keep a close eye on logs as you go - especially if you have pugs - and also be careful of where the ring explodes. Have whoever pops it stay well away from the soul drop point.

If you want to make it a little safer for those responsible for breaking souls out - you can send them in to the belly right at the start. Just have them jump in the pool and your raid break them out immediately. This will give them the debuff so they cant go back in again and means they can just focus on taking care of their job.

It really is a tougher boss, so you shouldnt feel discouraged at all by having a night of wipes here. It makes it all the more satisfying when you do kill it, but in my opinion, its an extremely hard boss to pug. People find it very hard to not meter whore by cleaving in p1, which does so much more damage than good, and having to micromanage strangers - unless of course they know the fight - is very hard. I would look at the meters though in p1 if you're failing there. People shouldnt really be that high compared to the soul-breakers, so just stress the fact that its only damage in p2 that matters.

Hope some of this helps. Don't give up and you'll get there.

[Bobblefet]

Tell both your protadins to switch to sera, use execution sentence and focus wrath glyph. I used LoV while progressin on this because my guild is so melee heavy the big add was up a long time, so the monster trinket procs helped a ton. Just be careful not to blow up the other tank's ghost.

[SimonVonLagMaat]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I asked the guy who normally does logs if he could post them, he hasn't gotten out of work yet, I'll edit this post with the world of logs file.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hRkC6xMWPDQYfVGv/

[markos82]

Most of your advice is bad. This is TERRIBLE. It's simply not true. Theres ~25 adds each normal phase no matter what. The reason people prefer to get them low is that executes for destro locks and priests etc generate resources and its easier to kil two constructs at 50% HP rather than one at full HP.

Also, boomkins as a class to free souls? I can't think of many worse classes. Boomkins are worse than anything I can imagine when it comes to mobility. Starfire and wrath take an age to cast and if you have doom / a link or are being chased you can only rely on starsurge.

Also yea, lets completely overkill a tank add with a ring explosion. Wasted damage is good right?

@ The OP, please link warcraftlogs (they aren't uploaded there atm) I find AMR logs gibberish. Its' very easy to identify problems on warcraftlogs.

Are you joking? Nothing I said is wrong. Ahve you seen them spawn when you kill the one, yeah they do, as soon as you kill one next one in the same line will spawn, so if you kill him 2sec after he spawned he will spawn again, almost instantly.

You haven't played Moonkin then, its probably the best, it can generate insane crits when you need to free people asap ( and its instant cast ) and after we started to use Moonkins we kill him on first go, you don't use SF and wrath, you use Starsurge and keep dots on them, one most likely not 2. Why would anyone be retarded to use SF or wrath on them if they have starsurge ready? With upgraded HC seed you have 90% chance to get free starfall that also deals dmg to them, boss + all the adds inside the area. Saying that proves you have never played moonkin. So there is no issue with mobility at all....

Wasted dmg? Nope, just not bordering with him, 2nd one, chance you have enough dps to kill him in first feast all slim to non cosidering you need to stack certain classes and have insane burst dmg during feast. So yeah, you will kill him in 2nd feast without any issue, probably half way through....

- - - Updated - - -

+1 to this, lol.

I saw this theory for the first time a week or so ago, but I dont understand why its cropping up more often now. As Deja said, it's more effective use of dps to leave them at 20% health roughly as they can be finished quickly on the outside and you can move on to another. Same applied to the healing adds - just heal to 80% and move on to the next.

Did you read what i wrote?!? I said don't kill them inside but leave them at 20-30%!!! Do you people even read?!?

[Deja Thoris]

What you're saying is simply wrong. I'm not debating this, I'm telling you. Like I said, its a fixed number of constructs per phase. Are you seriously telling me killing them just spawns "extras"? I don't even have words.

[SimonVonLagMaat]

I also had my raiders use the heirloom trinkets, not sure if that was the best idea or not, but it makes sense that they should be more or less the best trinkets for the fights, especially because they don't inherently aoe.

[nephzor]

What you're saying is simply wrong. I'm not debating this, I'm telling you. Like I said, its a fixed number of constructs per phase. Are you seriously telling me killing them just spawns "extras"? I don't even have words.

+1 to this.

/ on topic

If you have a dk have him go unholy, necrotic plague is the best thing you can have to damage the souls, have a warrior or hunter as backup to quickly execute the ones that are about to run out of time.

Also to the dude saying moonkins are the best at souls, you havent played a dk, i'd like to see you compete with an unholy dk on souls duty. Boomkins are much more useful at killing adds than dpsing souls especially if you have a dk and a warrior in your comp.

[Relapses]

Also to the dude saying moonkins are the best at souls, you havent played a dk, i'd like to see you compete with an unholy dk on souls duty. Boomkins are much more useful at killing adds than dpsing souls especially if you have a dk and a warrior in your comp.

If you use 3 players on the souls (UH DK, Arms Warrior & whatever), the third being a Moonkin just dropping a DoT + Starfall on the adds coming out, it's consistent, predictable damage and the more DoTs the Moonkin has up the higher likelihood for SS procs in those "oh shit" scenarios. (You can also bank the charges so you have it on demand.) I would not say they're the best -- far from it -- and a SPriest can do pretty much the same thing except with an execute -- but if you only have the Moonkin available, it's not the worst.

[markos82]

What you're saying is simply wrong. I'm not debating this, I'm telling you. Like I said, its a fixed number of constructs per phase. Are you seriously telling me killing them just spawns "extras"? I don't even have words.

Nope. If it was set then you can kill them all inside and nothing will spawn outside. And also you just did....

[Deleted]

Nope. If it was set then you can kill them all inside and nothing will spawn outside. And also you just did....

But that is exactly how it works? You kill them inside, nothing gets outside. And completely killing them doesn't seem to make them spawn faster either. If you have logs of a fight where killing them caused MORE than the 25/24 of them per feast to spawn, please do link them.

Last kill we had 24 Shadowy Constructs, and 18 Gorebound Constructs before the first feast, just this alone means that killing them inside stops them from spawning outside (Not to mention I did check their HPs, that more or less matches this number)

[Relapses]

But that is exactly how it works? You kill them inside, nothing gets outside. And completely killing them doesn't seem to make them spawn faster either. If you have logs of a fight where killing them caused MORE than the 25/24 of them per feast to spawn, please do link them.

Last kill we had 24 Shadowy Constructs, and 18 Gorebound Constructs before the first feast, just this alone means that killing them inside stops them from spawning outside (Not to mention I did check their HPs, that more or less matches this number)

Every mechanic in this game is pre-programmed. There are no dynamic switches for the adds down below. It's bullshit.

The bottom line for Gorefiend -- especially progression -- is that healing/DPSing the adds downstairs makes the phases upstairs much, much more manageable. The crux of the encounter is finding out which balance of DPS/healing yields you the best results.

[Nitros14]

Nope. If it was set then you can kill them all inside and nothing will spawn outside. And also you just did....

Advise not listening to this guy. The number of constructs is set and never changes.

[xcess]

Oh yeah i heard about this and some guildies insist that if you leave them up and slow them the next in line wont spawn till it gets to the middle

[Wilderness]

Nope. If it was set then you can kill them all inside and nothing will spawn outside.

That's exactly how the fight works. You are 100% wrong.