[SPOILERS] A fear I have for the future stories of Warcraft.

[Deleted]

Hear me out, please.

Now that it has been confirmed for a while that the Old Gods will play a prominent rule, or some sort of rule at least, this expansion, I am kind of afraid that they will continue to treat the Old Gods storylines as throw away, side story patches, instead of having a fully fledged and focused expansions to feature the Old Gods and their destruction -- maybe along side the long overdue Azshara as one of the main (or THE main) villains.

What are your thoughts?

[pazario]

Cataclysm say hi

[Deleted]

Cataclysm say hi

The main villain billed in Cataclysm was Deathwing, which while was still a servant of the N'zoth, we didn't get to see N'zoth for example at all.

But yes, I think I should have phrased it better. I mean a Old Gods dedicated expansion where the theme is as dark as Cataclysm's was, but the main focus is fighting the Old God and not its minions/effects.

Basically, do you people think we will ever have an Old Gods focused expansion again? And how would you want it to be like?

[Nefarious Tea]

People would bitch and moan because there's no variety. They'd decry it as "Cataclysm 2.0" just like they decried WOD as "vanilla 2.0" and Legion as "BC 2.0".

Personally, I'd love it. I have quite the addicted thirst for knowledge which is denied me; missing out on so much information about the Old Gods (and as a corollary, the Titans themselves) annoys me greatly. But let us also be realistic: HP Lovecraft had stopped writing stories and died before most of WoW's playerbase's grandparents were in diapers. They just don't appreciate good horror fiction outside of internet memes about Cthulhu.

[supertigerlamp]

I would assume we will have one at some point. The biggest problem I could see is how do you make them the focus without also diluting their importance over 3-4 raid expansion? Do you do what WotLK did where you start with a raid focused on some aspect of the Old Gods, then shift gears to something largely unrelated like they did with Ulduar, then get back on track towards dealing with the Old Gods in the subsequent expansions? Do you do 3 raid tiers all focusing on the Old Gods? Because they are so powerful it raises a lot of questions about how to realistically go about defeating one/multiples.

Because I sometimes wonder if Blizzard even has a rigid ranking/scale of power among its BBEGs I could see them not reeeally knowing how to handle the Old Gods as main bad guys, and could (unfortunately) see them continuing to under use the Old Gods in roles like Yogg and C'thun who were raid bosses, while Y'Shaarj basically supplemented Garrosh-as-raid-boss. In all 3 cases, the part they played was either incredibly minor (Y'shaarj was just a heart someone else was using), something that had very little overall connection to the surrounding narrative (Yogg existed in a raid instance was fabulous but disconnected from the larger WotLK narrative), or was so far off the beaten path for so many players at that point in the game it might as well have not existed at all (C'thun).

[killwithpwr]

People would bitch and moan because there's no variety. They'd decry it as "Cataclysm 2.0" just like they decried WOD as "vanilla 2.0" and Legion as "BC 2.0".

Personally, I'd love it. I have quite the addicted thirst for knowledge which is denied me; missing out on so much information about the Old Gods (and as a corollary, the Titans themselves) annoys me greatly. But let us also be realistic: HP Lovecraft had stopped writing stories and died before most of WoW's playerbase's grandparents were in diapers. They just don't appreciate good horror fiction outside of internet memes about Cthulhu.

And South Park....

You should really watch that episode where Cartman summons C'thulu

[Tnfstc]

Old God expansion next, new sub races added and Demon Hunters spread throughout factions a little more, major lore characters die or are corrupted by the Old Gods (Anduin being one of them.) The following expansion is Sargeras' and will see Naga (N) added as well as the Tinker Hero Class. From there Blizzard will just have to start pulling thing out of nowhere or make a whole new story.

[Deleted]

Being able to kill Eldritch abominations like those of Lovecraft defeats their point entirely. He envisioned these great and unimaginable monsters as an existential horror in a world in which Nietzsche has said that God is dead. Being able to stand against such beings clashes quite badly with this. All of Lovecraft's protagonists are thrown into their universe with the only exit being either insanity or death. While Lovecraft's own prose is very lacking and he's overrated as a writer, he was a great inventor and he knew how to use the ideas he had without trivializing them. I was against the idea of Old Gods when I first heard of them because of this. They lose everything that makes them terrifying. About your question - probably, Blizz have sunken quite low and the Old Gods are a low hanging fruit

[Deleted]

I don't think we will. Old gods are cool because they are misterious. But they don't make for compelling characters. So, something like cataclysm is the best you can expect. It would be good if we did get the old god as the boss of the final patch though. We got short changed with N'zoth.
Though in the end its pointless because they don't really die.

[Qualia]

I don't think we will. Old gods are cool because they are misterious. But they don't make for compelling characters. So, something like cataclysm is the best you can expect. It would be good if we did get the old god as the boss of the final patch though. We got short changed with N'zoth.
Though in the end its pointless because they don't really die.

Both C'Thun, Yogg and Y'Shaarj, together with a bunch of unnamed Old Gods are - to quote Blizzard - "very, very, very dead" now. Going with what we know so far, "they don't really die" is likely just their followers' wank ingame (and out, sometimes)

[High-Chief Greathoof]

The Old Gods approach a war much differently than the other villains we have faced. Let us compare them with the Burning Legion...

The Burning Legion has invaded Azeroth (after Legion's pre-patch release) three times. The Old Gods have never invaded Azeroth, instead they manipulate and corrupt minions to do their bidding (Deathwing and Azshara are the main two). We have "slain" some Old Gods already (C'thun and Yogg-Saron, but it is not yet confirmed if death is permanent for the Old Gods just like it is not for demons...).

If there was to be more involvement by the Old Gods (outside of their already increasing involvement in Legion), then I would expect not to directly fight them but instead take out their minions, mainly Azshara. If Blizzard goes with an Old God expansion, it would feel more like a Naga expansion headed by N'zoth. And just like how we 99.99% certain will not fight Sargeras but instead his Avatar or Kil'Jaeden as the end boss, the end boss of an Old God expansion would be the main minion fulfilling N'zoth's (or any other Old God's) wishes.

[Zenny]

Being able to kill Eldritch abominations like those of Lovecraft defeats their point entirely. He envisioned these great and unimaginable monsters as an existential horror in a world in which Nietzsche has said that God is dead. Being able to stand against such beings clashes quite badly with this.

Pffft, tell that to Conan.

[KrazyK923]

Stop saying things are confirmed when they're not.

You're repeatedly made up shit, OP in many different threads, and proclaimed them as fact.

The only role the Old Gods have played thusfar in any Legion content we've seen (And I'm in the Alpha so I know this) are in certain artifact introductions and then Xavius making mention to the fact that he was empowered by an Old God. And I guess just by default because Naga were made by them. But there is nothing like cataclysm where the Old God forces are everywhere screwing shit up.

[Florena]

With how much build up N'zoth has been getting, compared to C'thun and Yogg-Saron who were killed in the expansions that introduced them (well vanilla's not technically an expansion but you get my meaning), I doubt we need to worry that he's going to end up being sold short when we get to him. I have a feeling he's going to end up being the final old god we contend with as a sort of secondary or rival big bad to Sargeras, but we'll see how it plays out. The worst I could see happening is he ends up in the Azshara expansion but with her as the last boss instead, but still getting plenty of focus in the story.

- - - Updated - - -

Being able to kill Eldritch abominations like those of Lovecraft defeats their point entirely. He envisioned these great and unimaginable monsters as an existential horror in a world in which Nietzsche has said that God is dead. Being able to stand against such beings clashes quite badly with this. All of Lovecraft's protagonists are thrown into their universe with the only exit being either insanity or death. While Lovecraft's own prose is very lacking and he's overrated as a writer, he was a great inventor and he knew how to use the ideas he had without trivializing them. I was against the idea of Old Gods when I first heard of them because of this. They lose everything that makes them terrifying. About your question - probably, Blizz have sunken quite low and the Old Gods are a low hanging fruit

Yeah the old gods have always been lovecraft lite. But Warcraft isn't really the sort of setting I'd probably want full out cosmic horror in. It's great in other settings, but I don't really want that in WoW.

[Ethas]

But yes, I think I should have phrased it better. I mean a Old Gods dedicated expansion where the theme is as dark as Cataclysm's was, but the main focus is fighting the Old God and not its minions/effects. [/B]

If they ever choose this style and color again, they will fail harder than they did with Cataclysm.

[Yelmurc]

I'm sure the Old Gods will have their day in the sun.

[Deleted]

If they ever choose this style and color again, they will fail harder than they did with Cataclysm.

They aready did in MoP and WoD, according to sub numbers. Both expansions lost a lot more people, and MoP particularly (despite being my 2nd favorite expansion after WotLK) factually lost more than what it gained back from Cata (a gain that only happened due to the one year deal MoP brought to begin with to stabilize its current base.) Besides, Cata's initial loss was due to the difficulty of the game and not the theme; everyone was hyped to heaven and back when it was announced, and there is no use to deny that. Let's not be biased here.

I understand that the grim tones don't reflect well with everyone ,but apparently not the overly cheering tone as well that MoP brought (again, it's my 2nd favorite.)

That all said, this is all beside the point and it isn't a topic about bashing an expansion just because you don't like it and you want to self assure yourself that you represent everyone. The whole topic is about answering this: Will the Old Gods and Azshara be handled in the way they deserve, considering their caliber in Warcraft lore?

[Locknrollen]

The main villain billed in Cataclysm was Deathwing, which while was still a servant of the N'zoth, we didn't get to see N'zoth for example at all.

But yes, I think I should have phrased it better. I mean a Old Gods dedicated expansion where the theme is as dark as Cataclysm's was, but the main focus is fighting the Old God and not its minions/effects.

Basically, do you people think we will ever have an Old Gods focused expansion again? And how would you want it to be like?

So we've never really fought the legion, because we didnt directly fight sargeras, in your opinion?

[Deleted]

So we've never really fought the legion, because we didnt directly fight sargeras, in your opinion?

Not at all, where did you get that from what I said?

To compare what I am saying to your example, the answer would be "no, we didn't fight Sargeras directly" and not "no, we didn't fight Sargeras." Titular villain isn't always the same as the ultimate evil after all.

Let's take this from a different angle; in an Old God themed expansion, do you think Azshara would be a great titular villain?

[Deleted]

The Old Gods don't sell the same way the Legion sells. Why? Because the Old Gods are confined to Azeroth, using Azeroth denizens, while is way easier to expand the Legion roster and locations.

The beauty of the Old Gods is the mystery behind them, the danger that we know is there but won't fight off directly.

And honestly? I would put Azshara back on the Legion team, her "love" to Sargeras works better than her connection with the Old Gods. We don't need a Deathwing v2.