Thoughts on Tanking and Blood going into Legion (LONG)

[Philondra]

I was having fun looking at some old talents originally in the alpha/beta that were later scrapped, and boy I would take this one for Mythic+

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=206935/bloody-reprisal

[xpire]

I was having fun looking at some old talents originally in the alpha/beta that were later scrapped, and boy I would take this one for Mythic+

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=206935/bloody-reprisal

It wasn't very good, tell you that much.

[Philondra]

I'm just picturing pulling the whole entire room with 15 mobs smacking me...

[Veiled Shadow]

I'm just picturing pulling the whole entire room with 15 mobs smacking me...

It had a 6 charge cap, so it was pretty much useless in general.

Also, it competed with basically an uncapped version of itself (Bloodbolt) and Ossuary which at the time made Marrowrend cleave in DnD (and did something else that I can't remember).

[hasslehoof]

If you want to talk about Alpha/Beta Blood, let's not forget the biggest nerf/removal of all. Our Artifact tree no longer looks like a Pepe. FeelsBadMan.

[Barael]

Went back to Tanking this weekend, took some time off, was doing DPS in legion, but rather Tank.

Here's my mixed back of a character different gear right now;
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...thdingo/simple

Few questions. Reading the guides online, I am a little confused the more important dps spell or main one to use mostly ? Blood Boil vs Heart Strike.

I pull a boss like this; Taunt + Blood Boil + Marrowrend + Consumption + D+D + Morrowrend (again to keep 5 stacks up ), and then the more commonly used in longer fights Hearth Strike + Blood Boil + Death Strike threesome combo. I do these three after that main pull of the 5 or 6 spells to start off with.

So when your in a long fight, what are the main spells to hit the most ? Is it Hearth Strike #1, Blood Boil #2, Morrowrend #3, and DS just to keep your health up ?

That's actually something I've been pondering since Skullflower's Haemostasis dropped for me. I've noticed I've been using Blood Boil a lot less, especially on single target (my last heroic Star Augur was 80 Heart Strikes vs just 26 Blood Boils). Thing about Blood Boil is that it's basically empty damage. It doesn't generate any RP, it doesn't heal you at all (even a joke heal like Blood Feast), and on single target it's not that much more damage than HS (average hit 196.6k vs 185.5k for HS). Also prioritizing BB over HS might end you up sitting on runes, which means less RP generated which means less Death Strikes which is obviously double ungood.

So yeah, while it's obviously good for multitarget DPS in single target BB is really kinda so-and-so and for this I'm not sure I really like Skullflower's for single target since it incentivizes BB over HS.

Gear might affect this quite a lot though. With high haste and 4pc T19 it just doesn't seem like there's room to use every single BB charge without hampering RP generation. Maybe the solution is to drop some haste in favor of crit/versa to free up some GCDs.

I did just check some top parses for hc Star Augur (mine was ~120th or so) and while they do have higher BB:HS ratio, the difference isn't glaring.

[Raiz]

[...]and on single target it's not that much more damage than HS (average hit 196.6k vs 185.5k for HS). Also prioritizing BB over HS might end you up sitting on runes, which means less RP generated which means less Death Strikes which is obviously double ungood.

Be careful when you say that, because I know someone that didn't understand why I'm using marrowrend even at 7 stacks

So yeah, while it's obviously good for multitarget DPS in single target BB is really kinda so-and-so and for this I'm not sure I really like Skullflower's for single target since it incentivizes BB over HS.

Gear might affect this quite a lot though. With high haste and 4pc T19 it just doesn't seem like there's room to use every single BB charge without hampering RP generation. Maybe the solution is to drop some haste in favor of crit/versa to free up some GCDs.

I did just check some top parses for hc Star Augur (mine was ~120th or so) and while they do have higher BB:HS ratio, the difference isn't glaring.

Anyway, aren't you supposed to get more heal from DeathStrike if you have skullflower ? Either way, it's definitely better for m+.

[Barael]

Be careful when you say that, because I know someone that didn't understand why I'm using marrowrend even at 7 stacks

Anyway, aren't you supposed to get more heal from DeathStrike if you have skullflower ? Either way, it's definitely better for m+.

4 HS roughly gives you RP for 1 DS and Skullflower's gives you 100% damage + healing for the next DS after 4 BB so it basically evens out in single target, I guess. You lose what little healing Blood Feast gives for somewhat greater damage that BB does. But yeah I agree, for multitarget BB should prio over HS, Skullflower's or no. It's just a little surprising that Skullflower's is a bit meh for ST.

[Tojara]

I mean, it's not going to give a large amount of damage regardless. We have so many abilities that compose our damage breakdown, both of ST/AoE, and even on a fight like Krosus with virtually zero AoE, my death strike only amounts to around 20-25% of my damage done. If you have a blood boil for every death strike, it's a 5% damage boost, which isn't terrible. It's pretty noticeable when DRW is up though, where most death strikes are going to be boosted by 60%.

We aren't bears where nearly 70% of our damage comes from one ability, which is quite frankly absurd.

[Tehr]

I mean, it's not going to give a large amount of damage regardless. We have so many abilities that compose our damage breakdown, both of ST/AoE, and even on a fight like Krosus with virtually zero AoE, my death strike only amounts to around 20-25% of my damage done. If you have a blood boil for every death strike, it's a 5% damage boost, which isn't terrible. It's pretty noticeable when DRW is up though, where most death strikes are going to be boosted by 60%.

We aren't bears where nearly 70% of our damage comes from one ability, which is quite frankly absurd.

Bears are a somewhat unique situation, though. You have to have 7/7 Thrash relics, Luffas, take Incarn, and literally spam Thrash the entire time Incarn up. If you don't take Incarn, your top damage breakdowns are actually more even than BDKs (your top 3 abilities are all within about 10% of each other).

[Deleted]

Soulgorge replaced:

Heart of Ice (New) Death Strike extends the duration of Icebound Fortitude by 2 sec. Blood Death Knight - Level 57 Talent.

Now I'm sure I'll never spec out of RD.

[Xeoshades]

This is the same Dev team from Diablo 3 right? Why the heck can't we get some of those new Necromancer passives and talents coming our way. That class screams Death Knight for WoW.

I mean we had Wraith Walk thrown at us because of Diablo.

[Deleted]

I mean we had Wraith Walk thrown at us because of Diablo.

Actually it's a copy paste from Leoric in HotS.

Also, the more I read Heart of Ice descrpition the more I'm convincing myself this dev team is trolling us.

[Xeoshades]

Hear me out on this with the new talent.

If IF is being reduced to 20% dr for blood and Heart of Ice extents it by 2 secs. Isn't Spectral Deflection still better?

Spectral Deflection is 16%dr (chance based on crit to be 22% dr) when you need it every time taking massive amounts of damage + you can use IF on top of this period or after to smooth the damage further?

Why choose the new talent?

[Raiz]

Hahahahahahaha. No wait. Hahahahaha. Okay. *cough* Ahem. Well. If that wasn't obvious enough that blizz is simply sh.tting on us, then I don't know what to think anymore.

Make Rune Tap baseline, and then we're talking.

[figuratively]

What is this I don't even—

Is it better than Soulgorge? Yes
Is anybody going to use it? No

[Tehr]

Hear me out on this with the new talent.

If IF is being reduced to 20% dr for blood and Heart of Ice extents it by 2 secs. Isn't Spectral Deflection still better?

Spectral Deflection is 16%dr (chance based on crit to be 22% dr) when you need it every time taking massive amounts of damage + you can use IF on top of this period or after to smooth the damage further?

Why choose the new talent?

IBF is NOT being reduced to 20% DR for Blood. That is a myth.

[Tojara]

Well, I never used soulgorge, and I probably won't use heart of ice.

As shitty as it is, it's better than soulgorge.

As far as application goes the only time this is going to be used is when boss damage ramps up over an extended period of time (either because of an enrage, or a tanking mechanic) or an instance where semi frequent stuns are mean't to force a tank swap, but an extended IBF would help. Essentially, the second scenario is probably never going to happen, and the first scenario is pretty rare. Off the top of my head the only instance I can think of where this new talent might see some use is on Botanist if you're tanking the last phase for an extended period of time. If you bank RP you can actually get a pretty long IBF, but like stated, boss fights where you need a big DR for a very long time are pretty rare.

Do I like it? Not really, but it's still better than soulgorge.

Why do people keep throwing out a 20% IBF all the time?

[Tehr]

Why do people keep throwing out a 20% IBF all the time?

Either they don't actually play BDK (because our WoWHead tooltip displays 20% even though it's clearly 30% in-game), or they hear someone else who doesn't play BDK try to interpret patch notes.

That being said, I am an asshole, so I get a chuckle out of it anyway.

[Philondra]

I'm not sure if "It's better than Soulgorge" is a good way to look at a talent.

Change it to "Death Strike reduces the cooldown of Icebound Fortitude by 2 seconds" and we've got something worth looking at.


Edit: One of the problems with that row of talents (and there are several) is that Rapid Decomposition is a DPS increase, Heart of Ice is DPS neutral, and Spectral Deflection is a DPS loss. Although tank damage isn't as high as it was in WoD, its still from negligible.