Old Gods vs Sargesas/Burning Legion

[Deleted]

What yout think who is more powerful,

Old Gods or Sargeras/Burning Legion

i vote Sargeras reason.

He has the Burning Legion conquering WORLDS, titan.

Old Gods, just rulled Azeroth some time ago. Maybe there are more of them in the Universe, but the Titans only dont KILLED all of the Old Gods because Azeroth would be destroyed, so thats what saved them.

[Aquamonkey]

Titans have killed a lot of Old Gods.

Not every Old God is still alive and plotting. The Titans actually did kill a lot. (Source)

At BlizzCon 2014, Blizzard stated the WotA novel was hyperbole in saying the OGs would be able to defeat Sargeras.

[Deleted]

I believe that Blizzard is trying to make in the near future some kind of Old God legion , Burning Legion 2.0.

Far away in the Void the Old Gods have their own army of Killers and so on

[Deleted]

[Golden Yak]

I always preferred the idea of the average Old God being, pound for pound, stronger than the average Titan, and that it was ultimately the unity of the Titans and their superior numbers that struck down the chaotic Old Gods, who were few and just could not get along.

I have no problem with Sargeras having become more powerful due to his demonic transformation. That might have left Sargeras as the strongest individual being in the universe, stronger maybe than any single Old God, but not so powerful that he could take on multiple Old Gods solo.

I liked the idea that the Titans were a force of Order on par with the Old Gods, who were a force of chaos. The Legion Sargeras created were a new, third side that entered the game, seeking total annihilation.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Sargeras lets out a mighty kek as he cuts Azeroth with half of his sword. Sarg 1 old Gods 0

[Deleted]

inb4 the quote from krasus in that shitty knnack book

[Friendlyimmolation]

inb4 the quote from krasus in that shitty knnack book

Its ok, blizzard turned around and said that wasn't true in blue post.

[Deleted]

Its ok, blizzard turned around and said that wasn't true in blue post.

wont stop the oldgod fanboys posting it every chance they get

[Friendlyimmolation]

wont stop the oldgod fanboys posting it every chance they get

Topics come and go but stupid....

stupid never changes.

[Deleted]

Old Gods curb stomp.Slaughterhouse

[Zulkhan]

wont stop the oldgod fanboys posting it every chance they get

To be fair though, hyping shit that way and than lolling at that by saying "rofl sorry it was hyperbole" is one of the most hilariously dumb examples of backtracking I ever saw, handled out of the official material moreover. "Krasus talked out of his ass" is just a shitty excuse to say "We reconsidered and concluded we overhyped shit for no reason".

[WolfRider]

When people believe that Sargeras can cut a planet in half they misunderstand the meaning, it's a f*cking allegory.
Sargeras is not that big and it's a reference to Attila. He just destroys planet's magic sources that allow life and order to spread (the Titan's work).

Sargy is not a colossal guy with a sword as big as a planet, he's a giant but not enough to slash it. He needs minions, he needs an army, he needs to recruit, he needs to be summoned! If he was what that big he wouln't have to be summoned through big power source to travel accross the universe, he would just have to fly a few and he'd be done.

Entities we know as "Old Gods" are from another plan, some of them have been attracted by primary Azeroth powers, they were just using Elemental forces to fight each other and reign over the planet.

Comparing Titans and Old Gods with Diablo entities, Old Gods are demons (they act the same), Titans are Angels.
Sargeras is just an Angel who got changed into a demon but had another plan, he created a third faction, corrupting other races to his point of view. But when you look closer, these other races don't differ of Old Gods. Kil'Jaeden just want to be in charge of Legion, using planets power to give him more powers, he's not following the same purpose than Sargeras.

Back to the Sargeras VS Old Gods, if all Old Gods we know were alive and united, no match, they would overcome Sargeras, torturing him for eternity. My guess, the reason he changed is because he found a planet where Old Gods were well settled, and he couldn't fight them by himself. So they used him against Pantheon.

I'm not an Old God Fanboy, but like I said in another thread, Warcraft (and by extend WoW) is all about One Force against Another, and there's no good VS evil because both sides defends their own purpose.
You have Chaos VS Order, Old Gods VS Titans, that's the balance of universe, it's infinite! And like in every myth, there's always ONE guy that can unmake that balance, giving the advantage to Chaos side (like the Antichrist and other stuff) and this guy is Sargeras. But what happens when you mix Chaos and Order? It creates the Void, the end of everything, the end of the Universe game. And that's Sargeras goal, destroying planets, giving no chance to Chaos and Order to continue their purpose.

[Friendlyimmolation]

When people believe that Sargeras can cut a planet in half they misunderstand the meaning, it's a f*cking allegory.
Sargeras is not that big and it's a reference to Attila. He just destroys planet's magic sources that allow life and order to spread (the Titan's work).

lol its not a fucking allegory, they talk about how he fucking cut the planet maradum or however it is spelled. He is that fucking big and none of the bawwing will change that.

Back to the Sargeras VS Old Gods, if all Old Gods we know were alive and united, no match, they would overcome Sargeras, torturing him for eternity

except no, because that was all bullshit and confirmed bullshit by Blizzard.

My guess, the reason he changed is because he found a planet where Old Gods were well settled, and he couldn't fight them by himself. So they used him against Pantheon.

Fucking wrong again, he turned because he saw the only way to order was a clean slate.

I'm not an Old God Fanboy,

Lots of old god bias and overall incorrect shit for someone that isnt a "old god fanboy*

You have Chaos VS Order, Old Gods VS Titans, that's the balance of universe, it's infinite!

except the fact that the Titans have killed a fuck ton of Old gods and there is no confirmation that any titans were killed.

[Aquamonkey]

When people believe that Sargeras can cut a planet in half they misunderstand the meaning, it's a f*cking allegory.
Sargeras is not that big and it's a reference to Attila. He just destroys planet's magic sources that allow life and order to spread (the Titan's work).

It's official artwork and wasn't presented as an allegory.

Sargy is not a colossal guy with a sword as big as a planet, he's a giant but not enough to slash it. He needs minions, he needs an army, he needs to recruit, he needs to be summoned! If he was what that big he wouln't have to be summoned through big power source to travel accross the universe, he would just have to fly a few and he'd be done.

Blizzard's response has been that Azeroth is special.

Back to the Sargeras VS Old Gods, if all Old Gods we know were alive and united, no match, they would overcome Sargeras, torturing him for eternity.

Blizzard said this was hyperbole at BlizzCon 2014.

My guess, the reason he changed is because he found a planet where Old Gods were well settled, and he couldn't fight them by himself. So they used him against Pantheon.

It has always been demons that made Sargeras turn. The titans hadn't encountered Old Gods yet.

Metzen once joked about making it OGs that made Sargeras turn when the eredar were retconned. They just made it other demons.

I'm not an Old God Fanboy, but like I said in another thread, Warcraft (and by extend WoW) is all about One Force against Another, and there's no good VS evil because both sides defends their own purpose. You have Chaos VS Order, Old Gods VS Titans, that's the balance of universe, it's infinite!

The primary antagonist has always been demons. OGs are just a side thing that came along later. Titans are good, demons are evil.

And like in every myth, there's always ONE guy that can unmake that balance, giving the advantage to Chaos side (like the Antichrist and other stuff) and this guy is Sargeras. But what happens when you mix Chaos and Order? It creates the Void, the end of everything, the end of the Universe game. And that's Sargeras goal, destroying planets, giving no chance to Chaos and Order to continue their purpose.

Sargeras isn't trying to make chaos. He's trying to create true order by remaking the universe. And again, his thing has always been about demons, never OGs.

[Deleted]

it's like people don't even know the basics of the story and yet they post their bullshit over and over and over again on the LORE forum ffs

sure Old Gods, who have been defeated by mortals before, are stronger than Sargeras, the main antagonist of the entire fucking franchise

that makes sense

you'd think eventually just maybe after Aqua has posted the same blue posts for the 500th time people would get it

seriously

[Rathbourne]

You have Chaos VS Order, Old Gods VS Titans, that's the balance of universe, it's infinite! And like in every myth, there's always ONE guy that can unmake that balance, giving the advantage to Chaos side (like the Antichrist and other stuff) and this guy is Sargeras. But what happens when you mix Chaos and Order? It creates the Void, the end of everything, the end of the Universe game. And that's Sargeras goal, destroying planets, giving no chance to Chaos and Order to continue their purpose.

Let me stop you at the first sentence alone.Its not Old God vs Titan, it is and always have been Demon vs Titan.Old Gods were just made by a Blizzard dev who was a Lovecraft fan.Demons have always been the main villains of Warcraft.They were the main villains since WC1 and Sargeras came in at WC2.Old Gods were only added much later in WC3.Old Gods have always been a secondary threat compared to Sargeras and the Burning Legion.

[mizeri]

what if its an old god sitting on top of sargs head

[WolfRider]

lol its not a fucking allegory, they talk about how he fucking cut the planet maradum or however it is spelled. He is that fucking big and none of the bawwing will change that.

Dude, have you ever read the Bible ? It's not because it's written "he walked on the water" that he actually did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When you want to give importance to someone's act, you exagerate it!!!!

It's official artwork and wasn't presented as an allegory.

Same here, it's a painting, a representation of a great act. Over exagerated!

If He was that big, why does he bother to recruit other races!!! Do you tame ants to blow up Piñatas ? NO !!!! You just blow it by yourself!!! And I'm not talking about HOW special Azeroth is, I'm talking about other planets!

Blizzard's response has been that Azeroth is special.

Indeed Azeroth is special because it's where the game is taking place and if it was easy to crush the game would be over! And if it wasn't the last place to take, it would have no dramatic interest. Blizzard can't say it that way because it has no storytelling interest.

The primary antagonist has always been demons. OGs are just a side thing that came along later. Titans are good, demons are evil.

Sargeras isn't trying to make chaos. He's trying to create true order by remaking the universe. And again, his thing has always been about demons, never OGs.

Fucking wrong again, he turned because he saw the only way to order was a clean slate.

So basically, if I resume your thoughts :
- Demons are Chaos. But what do we categorize as "Demons"? There are many races, from many planets. They appear where Magic is used. They attack Pantheon because Titans are made of that magic. Demons feed themselves with magic. Sargeras first task was to defend Pantheon from them.
- Titans are Order. It's a unique race of metal giants, that bring life and order on planets. Their work is based on "Free Will" evolution and observation.
- Old Gods are just random creatures controlling lower creatures minds to gather power and rule over worlds, competing each other for the bigger cake. Sounds like complete Chaos to me, opposite to Titan's order and "Free Will"... But whatever...

Sargeras was a Titan but turned to Demons. That's a huge shortcut. It is said that when he was chasing Demons, he encountered the Nathrezims, that he enprisonned, but he had some kind of epiphany when he spoke to them. And Nathrezims are manipulative (like Old Gods... strange...) and later Sargeras chose to take his own path. Not Demon's path, he doesn't want to absorb planets magical sources to gather power, he just want to destroy them.

My point is that "Demon" in WoW is just a label referring to races living in a chaotic way, thirsty of magic and power.
Who creates life on planets? Titans. And who are enough powerfull to alter Titan's work ? Old Gods. Curse of Flesh, manipulating Titan's watchers, we've all seen that on Azeroth. From Loken to Deathwing, from Xavius (a former Night Elf, manipulated by Sargeras, changed by Kil'Jaeden, than "saved" by N'Zoth when he failed his Demonic Masters...) to Elemental Lords...
I'm sorry to insist, but I'm not the one who wrote these things, Blizzard did. Maybe they started with Demons and Titans, but they are not equals.
Titans, who are made of many kinds of metals, come from the same type.
Old Gods are all based on the same design. Flesh, Tentacles, Shells but no Bones...
"Demons" are the result of an evolution due to chaotic context but they are flesh and bones, with many species, many designs and malleable minds.
Creatures that Titans bring to life : humanoïds, animals or dragons, many design, flesh and bones, free will.

You're going to scream, because "Blizzard said so in a 140 char text or in an already scripted conference", but I just refer to logic and Blizzard's own themes references.

Everything in the game is about Order VS Chaos , Free Will VS Slavery. Light VS Shadow, Ying and Yang.
They defined 2 entities made of opposite matter and topics, coming from 2 differents planes, playing in the same courtyard (our universe).
We only have myths or remains of these 2 entities and they are on Azeroth.
The only purpose of Azeroth, and over the reason that's the core of the game, is that it's where stands the last Pillar of Universe Balance.
Free Will races fighting against manipulative Old Gods burried deep in the planet anf their minions (corrupted black Dragon Flight and Deathwing, Azshara and Nagas, Quirajis and C'thun, Ulduar Guardians and Yogg'Saron, the Emerald Nightmare and N'Zoth, Shas and corrupted Pandarian races...).
That's the last battlefield of the Universe Balance.
That resumes WoW Vanilla, a part of WotLK, Cataclysm, Pandaria

And we have the order's ex-champion, Sargeras, who wants to reset the Great Game of the Universe by destroying the courtyard toys (planets where life (enslaved or free) can keep the big game on). And indeed, his last step is Azeroth, because if he succeeds, the game is over!
So he or his burning legion keeps trying to reach Azeroth, in WC3, Burning Crusade, WoD, Legion...

I wasn't saying that Old Gods were the supreme threat, I was saying that they are part of the balance, without them and their influence on the Lore, the game and the story wouldn't be the same. And MAYBE, because Demons races are still not really explained, I was suggesting that "Old Gods" entities (and I wasn't talking about the ones we know from Azeroth) were responsible for Demonic forms of life or have a part in their evolution.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Dude, have you ever read the Bible ? It's not because it's written "he walked on the water" that he actually did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When you want to give importance to someone's act, you exagerate it!!!!

Fuck, Its not exaggeration Its confirmed art of Sarg breaking the planet he imprisoned Demons, That is the fucking lore.

Same here, it's a painting, a representation of a great act. Over exagerated!

Go watch beta gameplay as a demon hunter. They litterally talk about Sarg Cutting the fucking planet with his sword.

If He was that big, why does he bother to recruit other races!!! Do you tame ants to blow up Piñatas ? NO !!!! You just blow it by yourself!!! And I'm not talking about HOW special Azeroth is, I'm talking about other planets!

Because its a fucking universe with billions of planets to consume. He isn't everywhere at once

Indeed Azeroth is special because it's where the game is taking place and if it was easy to crush the game would be over! And if it wasn't the last place to take, it would have no dramatic interest. Blizzard can't say it that way because it has no storytelling interest.

Blizzard can do what it damn well pleases.

-Snip-

stop trying to shoehorn in your personal opinion over established lore.