Virtues Beyond Love

[nanook12]

I have a curious philosophical question that I have been thinking about recently, and I thought I would get the forums perspective on it.

I am going to generalize some, but from personal experience I assume that the vast majority pf people place a lot of value on finding love in life. Many people wish nothing more than to go to college and get a good paying job all in order to be able to raise and support a family. The center of this focus is finding someone to love. However, I question if this is our ultimate goal? Are there any values or virtues worth pursuing that are greater or of more importance than questing after love?

I personally, believe that there are values beyond love that are of more importance, but I just believe so out of gut feeling and I don't know exactly how to describe them.

Thank you.

[Belize]

Of course some virtues are more important than love.

Like pizza.

[nanook12]

Of course some virtues are more important than love.

Like pizza.

It's just that so many people place "love" as the greatest thing that humans can aspire to achieve, but to me that seems pretty shallow. There has to be some greater meaning to life. But what is it?

[Revi]

Your question seems fundamentally flawed.

I question if this is our ultimate goal?

^that would imply "we" have a goal. That there's a shared purpose or a universal ranking of importance. You're presupposing that purpose is not something we decide individually and subjectively.

This sounds like a religious question, since your looking for a predetermined purpose for our existence, which would imply a consciousness being intentionally responsibly for our existence.

[May90]

It definitely depends on the person. My stance on this, for example, is as follows: I don't see finding someone I would have mutual love with as absolutely crucial, and I will be able to live without that - but I would be very-very happy if it happened; I have everything I want in my life, except this. I wouldn't say it is an "ultimate" goal for me, but it is an important goal nonetheless. The "ultimate" goal would probably be, when laying on a bed roll, dying, not regretting anything, knowing I've lived my life the way I wanted to. And that depends on too many factors to list them all here.

[nanook12]

Your question seems fundamentally flawed.



^that would imply "we" have a goal. That there's a shared purpose or a universal ranking of importance. You're presupposing that purpose is not something we decide individually and subjectively.

This sounds like a religious question, since your looking for a predetermined purpose for our existence, which would imply a consciousness being intentionally responsibly for our existence.

I am not religious. Just searching for answers to things I generally think about. I realize that there may be no "meaning" or "ultimately goal/purpose" of life, and I also realize that there my be no universal ranking of importance and that each individual has to find his or her own purpose. I have no proof, but I tend to think that there is some "ultimate goal" that life is supposed to strive for, and that there is some underlying universal ranking of importance. So under those assumptions, and they are big assumptions, what would you say is the most important value to pursue?

[Belize]

What could be greater than pizza?

[Deleted]

Everyone has their own thing they aspire to. For some it's love. Others try to acquire knowledge, or to help others. Some want to have fun, others want to have a family.
You know all those life achievements in Sims? Yeah, it's somewhat like that.

That's the entire point of life, you make up your own goal, your own reasoning and work to achieve it. Or you don't or fail and you kill yourself.

I also believe in an afterlife, so from my point of view that's one of the "passive" goals as well, be good to others, this comes next to your main goals like love and stuff. But that's my opinion.

[nanook12]

No. There doesn't.

That's pretty much it.

I understand, but can we entertain the possibility that there is some ultimate universal value just for the sake of discussion?

[Templar 331]

Goals differ between person to person. What I believe is a virtue may be seen by others as a waste. As for a virtue that could be greater than love? Honor.

That is a bit of an ambiguous answer, but I'll explain my meaning. To me honor is a personal code that one should enforce on one's self. It is wrong to enforce it on others so it must be voluntary. That's one of the reasons people see it as a waste. "Why do what's good when doing what's easy is easier?" To me honor is doing the right thing even when it's easier to just not do anything. It's telling the truth when it could get you in trouble. It's sacrificing when no one else would. Working hard when others are lying in the shade.

How is this better than love? An honorable person can look at themselves in the mirror with a light heart and be proud of their self. Unless you're a really crooked person with no conscience then you wouldn't feel anything either way. >.> With that kind of feeling and those characteristics you will find someone worth loving. Most people I see that don't have honor are the type of people who ruin the lives of others. They aren't looking for love, just someone to sleep with.

But if you don't find someone to love you, as is my case :'(, you at least live a good life.

[Revi]

I am not religious. Just searching for answers to things I generally think about. I realize that there may be no "meaning" or "ultimately goal/purpose" of life, and I also realize that there my be no universal ranking of importance and that each individual has to find his or her own purpose. I have no proof, but I tend to think that there is some "ultimate goal" that life is supposed to strive for, and that there is some underlying universal ranking of importance. So under those assumptions, and they are big assumptions, what would you say is the most important value to pursue?

But where would that ultimate goal come from, if not a god?

Goal means there's intent. If there's intent, there's consciousness behind it. You cannot say there's a purpose to life beyond what we make for ourselves, unless you believe life was created with intent. And that would require a god of some kind.

So by asking the question, I think you already assume there's a god.

Since I don't think there's any reason to believe there's a god, I don't think there's an answer to this other than "there isn't".
If I assume for the sake of discussion that there is one, my answer would be only god knows. So under that pretense, either none of us know or you can choose to believe that there's a book or a messenger that is the word of god and find your answer there.

[Independent voter]

Well, there is love of family, wife, kids etc.

That's a good start. If you want to embellish on that you can love your fellow man, strangers. That's a whole step up from love of family and friends.

[dextersmith]

Of course some virtues are more important than love.

Like pizza.

Like love or lust for pizza?

[SaucyThighs]

I think love is the answer, but what love means is often misunderstood and confused with attachment. I agree that searching for someone to love is often unfulfilling and even if you do find a wonderful person to be with there is still that feeling, at least in the back of your mind, that some need or desire isn't being met, that there's is something greater to be found.

In Buddhism they call this fundamental dissatisfaction, or basic suffering -- the feeling of not being content with what is right now. We try to satisfy that hungry feeling each and every day with countless pursuits... getting a good job, getting good entertainment, getting a nice house, getting the right kind of friends, getting a life partner. In my experience love is the only thing that satisfies that feeling. I think we can agree that the love of friends and family, or of a partner, is more important that most other pursuits (and I'd like to hear if you disagree), but even with all this we can still feel incomplete.

My belief is that it's not a problem with love, it's our own confusion with and resistance towards it. Love isn't something you get from others, like some kind of limited commodity. That perception leads to all the pain and drama often associated with it -- the drama of people scared to lose their connection with the feeling of safety and wholeness they need. But real love isn't some sappy, or weak romance novel thing. It's simpler, more profound and more robust than that. It's the willingness to be fully present with someone (including yourself). To share a space with someone, openly, without judgement, and be with them exactly as they are. It's unconditional. Sometimes it's even as little as giving a warm smile to the cashier, or not giving someone the finger in traffic. It's the willingness to see and feel someone else's pain, without ulterior motive but just to help them feel better.

And, as I've mentioned, it's not something you're going to get from someone else. You have give that gift to yourself first. It's what we are -- that place of peace and clarity, of coming home. It's restful, and playful, both strong and soft at the same time. It's the place beneath our personality, and maybe even the place that doesn't die with your body. I hesitate to even call it an emotion, but love is the closest word we have to it, although that may be a loaded term for some.

If you're looking for something else, like truth or wisdom or knowledge, I think love in its essence is distinct from these things.

[Deleted]

What could be greater than pizza?

an extra greasy bacon cheeseburger with extra greasy fries

as much as I like pizza, eating it is always a pain in the ass if you ask me

[Jayburner]

I gave up on love 20 years ago. I am just happy to see my family happy.

[Palemaster]

Sense of accomplishment gets a much higher rank in my book than love.

Setting goals for myself and fulfilling them is one of the best feeling in the world for me, especially when they demand a lot of work and dedication (and a few are pretty prestigious).

[Dezerte]

I think your question is based upon on a false premise - that there is such a thing as an objective ultimate goal in life. The only thing we have in common is our desires to find purpose, but this purpose will differ from person to person. You make your own purpose, it is not something that is given.

[Jayburner]

I think this is a question that has no real "answer" that applies to everyone.

For most people nowadays work, marriage, kids are the "end goals". They believe that will make them happy, and for most people, they are happy, or at least content.

Other people may find the whole thing a trivial pursuit, based on cultural pressure. (Material consumption, an obligation to spread your genes, etc)

Ultimately though, take the time to figure out what makes you happy, figure out if it's your actual desire, or something that's been culturally conditioned, and if it's "real" and not harmful and fulfilling for you, go with it. There is nothing wrong with wanting love, etc.

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I pretty much agree with this as well.

I think Connal just fell in love.