Bernie Sanders: college sexual assault cases should be handled by police

[Auxora]

Generally I think most serious crimes are handled by city police. I attended a large university and at least in my case the "University Police" were more for parking tickets, maybe breaking up a minor drunken fight, etc. But if anything serious happened like if something were stolen like a tv or laptop, the city police handled it like a normal police case. Certainly for something more serious like rape the victim should go to the city police, not call the university police. If anyone does I'd say 2 mistakes are being made; #1 the victim reporting it to the wrong authorities and #2 the university police not passing along something major like that to be handled by regular police. In fact if someone reported a major serious crime like rape to the university police I'd kind of doubt the authenticity of the claim.

[Dystemper]

My campus was kind of spooky at night. Old buildings, low light, big trees...

That dude in black with the White ghost face mask running around.

[Endus]

But when is it ever about their 'behavior'? It's an accusation of rape, not an accusation of 'this guy is creepy/mean'. What you're asking is only going to end in innocent people being expelled because 'it's better for the environment of the students'.

You make it seem like the university isn't doing their own internal assessment of the situation. I'd oppose a kneejerk presumption that any accusation must be truth, but that's not what's being suggested.

[GennGreymane]

I agree

it should be handled by police and not by campus security.

[Piglord]

I'm pretty certain that every reported rape is already handled by police.

[Tijuana]

Is the OP implying that men are never sexually assaulted? I am more shocked that this was not another USA bashing thread from the OP

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Just think about the Duke La cross players. They had their lives ruined over false accusations. And that article in Rolling stone?
I think if a woman levels false sexual abuse charges against someone, she should charged with a felony and spend a minimum of 5 years in prison.

The OP has three types of threads: Bash America, Bash Israel, GO TEAM CANADA.

We all know he is trolling but, sometimes there is fun to be had among the other posters despite the obvious nature of the threads.

[Cosmic Janitor]

The OP has three types of threads: Bash America, Bash Israel, GO TEAM CANADA.

Hmm, most of them are actually about male bashing imho.

[Cthulhu 2020]

This is a good thing, for people on BOTH sides of the issue. When campuses were just handling it, the rapists would merely be expelled. With the police handling it, rapists will be punished properly BUT there is also a much higher burden of proof to meet when it comes to actual state law enforcement and prosecuting. In other words, it will cut down false accusations getting through with nigh no burden of proof needed.

This would seem like a sensible compromise to anyone.

[Pengalor]

You make it seem like the university isn't doing their own internal assessment of the situation. I'd oppose a kneejerk presumption that any accusation must be truth, but that's not what's being suggested.

That's the point though. If they aren't doing anything illegal (and thus, outside the purview of the legal system) then why would the university be trying to throw them out? It can't be on the rape since the legal system has way more resources for determining guilt. So what, are they going to piggyback on the rape accusation to toss a 'problematic' person out? Isn't that just looking for reasons to throw someone out at that point?

This is why people are worried. These universities are not held to any kind of standard, they are allowed to operate as they please. That means they can do whatever they like. For example, they aren't under any obligation to provide the accused with representation. Then there's the fact that it's likely in the university's best interests (both time and resource-wise as well as in terms of publicity) to get rid of the person regardless of the investigation because it's better for PR to believe the accuser. There is just too little accountability to support the university doing anything of the sort, it should be left entirely in the hands of the legal system.

[kreationkin]

I really don't understand why it WOULDN'T be. It should be a two-pronged process; the criminal charges go through the police. However, the school is also able to make decisions and take action based on their own interpretations, particularly given that a decision not to prosecute or a "not guilty" verdict are not declarations of innocence on the part of the accused. The one shouldn't have anything to do with the other, besides a guilty verdict being confirmation of guilt for the school's decisions (probably rendered moot by the sentence that results, anyway).

Incase you'd like some of the arguments (good ones) as to why it might NOT be better having the police involved in every case, Intelligence Squared had a really strong debate over this exact issue. It was (and is) not as clear cut an issue as I'd have thought.

[Tijuana]

That's the point though. If they aren't doing anything illegal (and thus, outside the purview of the legal system) then why would the university be trying to throw them out? It can't be on the rape since the legal system has way more resources for determining guilt. So what, are they going to piggyback on the rape accusation to toss a 'problematic' person out? Isn't that just looking for reasons to throw someone out at that point?

This is why people are worried. These universities are not held to any kind of standard, they are allowed to operate as they please. That means they can do whatever they like. For example, they aren't under any obligation to provide the accused with representation. Then there's the fact that it's likely in the university's best interests (both time and resource-wise as well as in terms of publicity) to get rid of the person regardless of the investigation because it's better for PR to believe the accuser. There is just too little accountability to support the university doing anything of the sort, it should be left entirely in the hands of the legal system.

I agree with you on the fairness point. However, Universities are not required to admit all applicants. They have and need the power to remove students as they see fit. They can be sued if they make improper decisions, such as the Duke Lacrosse scandal.

[Underverse]

You make it seem like the university isn't doing their own internal assessment of the situation. I'd oppose a kneejerk presumption that any accusation must be truth, but that's not what's being suggested.

Unfortunately that's the current reality. A good friend of mine was expelled from his college because of two girls who teamed up to falsely accuse him - one was a pathological liar and the other was a lesbian who regretted having sex. There was no due process - the university simply said he had to go, because he was tarnishing the school's image. He wasn't even given a chance to defend himself. His requests for an audience with the school board were denied.

These are the kinds of things that happen when you don't require evidence. And what are the ramifications for these girls, who ruined the guy's life? Nothing. No one will even know that they lied because it will never be discussed.

[Cosmic Janitor]

This is a good thing, for people on BOTH sides of the issue. When campuses were just handling it, the rapists would merely be expelled. With the police handling it, rapists will be punished properly BUT there is also a much higher burden of proof to meet when it comes to actual state law enforcement and prosecuting. In other words, it will cut down false accusations getting through with nigh no burden of proof needed.

This would seem like a sensible compromise to anyone.

I don't see why this ever was any different? I could see if there were cities that were once only a university in the middle of nowhere and they always had their own autonomic public service structure, but afaik that is not case. I don't see a reason why ACTUAL crime should be handled by someone not in the legal system related to the country/state.

[Karrotlord]

I hope this happens. The fact that it's not in so many places is a mockery of due process for the accused and justice for the victims. It's a serious issue that needs to be handled properly.

[Endus]

That's the point though. If they aren't doing anything illegal (and thus, outside the purview of the legal system) then why would the university be trying to throw them out? It can't be on the rape since the legal system has way more resources for determining guilt. So what, are they going to piggyback on the rape accusation to toss a 'problematic' person out? Isn't that just looking for reasons to throw someone out at that point?

There are plenty of reasons a university might kick a student out over stuff that isn't criminal. Getting drunk and making an ass out of yourself in the quad. Going on racist rants in the main thoroughfares. And so forth. I think preventing universities from expelling students unless they've been convicted of an actual crime is a pretty ridiculous stance.

This is why people are worried. These universities are not held to any kind of standard, they are allowed to operate as they please. That means they can do whatever they like. For example, they aren't under any obligation to provide the accused with representation. Then there's the fact that it's likely in the university's best interests (both time and resource-wise as well as in terms of publicity) to get rid of the person regardless of the investigation because it's better for PR to believe the accuser. There is just too little accountability to support the university doing anything of the sort, it should be left entirely in the hands of the legal system.

Same's true of employers, but nobody's really complaining about them having similar authority regarding their employees. I think people just have an itch that drives them to condemn academia in general.

[luc54]

It should be obvious that police should handle these matters. As for univeristies handing them, it's absolute farce, here's article from washington monthly about title IX: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/mag...7.php?page=all There are quite few cases of these kangaroo courts which can be abused as the defendat has almost no way to actually properly defend himself/herself.

[Deleted]

How sad it is that colleges would even consider taking it into their own hands in the first place.

[Sliske]

How the hell is this a controversial stance?

So what next, assault cases shouldn't be handled by police just because it happened at a college? Theft? Is enforcing the law a controversial position to take?

Seriously, this is just another pallet on the giant shit infested bonfire of fail that is our society.

[Pengalor]

There are plenty of reasons a university might kick a student out over stuff that isn't criminal. Getting drunk and making an ass out of yourself in the quad. Going on racist rants in the main thoroughfares. And so forth. I think preventing universities from expelling students unless they've been convicted of an actual crime is a pretty ridiculous stance.

Well, it's a good thing that's not what I'm saying then. I never said they shouldn't be able to but it should be done without some mock trial to pretend there's any sort of legitimacy to their system. It also shouldn't be done on the back of a rape accusation since they are basically connecting the accusation with the reason they were kicked out. At least you answered my question in a roundabout way though: they are using a rape accusation to find reasons to get rid of a student.

Same's true of employers, but nobody's really complaining about them having similar authority regarding their employees. I think people just have an itch that drives them to condemn academia in general.

It's not remotely as common with employers and there aren't laws being created to support it. California schools, for example, were forced to accept an overreaching law regarding affirmative consent or else they risked losing funding.

[Tijuana]

How the hell is this a controversial stance?

So what next, assault cases shouldn't be handled by police just because it happened at a college? Theft? Is enforcing the law a controversial position to take?

Seriously, this is just another pallet on the giant shit infested bonfire of fail that is our society.

The university class does not take kindly to any infringements on their fiefdom.