Should BM have been the melee spec?

[ro9ue]

This thread is about the class fantasy and spec themes. So if that's not your thing, you probably won't find this discussion interesting. Let me start off by saying I think the Legion Marksman spec has a clearly defined "Ranger" fantasy and it appears totally solid, especially with the option to flavor it to be more of a Dark Ranger. I just want to focus this discussion on Survival and Beast Mastery. Some of the changes to those two specs in Legion bug me when it comes to "class fantasy".

I'm not sure how best to word this so instead I'm going to bullet my points and hopefully you can follow my logic.

• Beast Mastery I've always looked to Rexxar as the iconic figure. He's melee. I've felt like he was in fact a 'Survivalist', but the true focus was on nature and beasts and pets.
• The new "Tinkers", Goblin and Gnome hunters with Mech pets, would likely want to use ranged guns, so that would force them into Beast Mastery. That doesn't seem to fit. BM has animal and nature flavored abilities, and Goblins and Gnomes don't fit that theme.
• Instead, wouldn't it make sense to leave the "nature/beast" theme with BM but instead craft it into a melee spec?
• Survival then could be named to Tinker or something and just focus on gadgets like Guns, traps and explosives - but be ranged.
• Beast Mastery would be a melee spec that focuses on nature and animals, but also get some of that "Survivalist" flavor. Like an outdoorsman.
• As it stands now I think Beast Mastery and Survival bleed into each other too much theme wise and instead there's an opening to really push that "tinker" stuff they are just sprinkling in right now.

End result of my thoughts above are:

Beast Mastery - True Rexxar outdoorsman and wild nomad spec. Uses melee and pets. Maybe can throw some axes from ranged. This would be a survivalist-based theme.

Marksman - As is. The "Ranger" spec, with the option to be a "Dark Ranger".

Survival renamed to Tinker (or something) - Focuses on guns, explosives, traps and other gadgets.

I feel this further distinguishes the 3 specs and also helps fit certain races into more lore-appropriate specializations.


Thoughts?

[SL1200]

If any hunter spec should be melee (none should imo) it's Survival.

[Bushtuckrman]

It's honestly a no brainer as far as BM being melee. MM should have more of a Dark Ranger theme in it, instead of a temp pet talent that no one will take.
Would've been happy with Survival having a rifle for the artifact weapon with a focus on utility and magic damage

[Kissthebaby]

I swear its just the same person making the same thread with the same ideas every week.

[TheDestinatus]

Thats how I thought it would have went down. Don't really hear melee when you say survival. Beast Master sounds more like a melee to me. Even without Rexxar as an example, I'm yet to find an animal skilled in laying steel traps.

MM should have more of a Dark Ranger theme in it

Why a "Dark" ranger? Nothing about being skilled with a bow/crossbow screams "I'm an undead elf"

[Hyde]

No.
And in my honest opinion, Survival would had been better as a Tank spec for these reasons;
1) The first mail armored tank
2) An interesting synergy of absorbing and sharing damage load from attackers as well as damage mitigation with the usage of the Hunter's pet
3) The name survival itself implies it can survive; a very tanky name.

[Pandragon]

No.
And in my honest opinion, Survival would had been better as a Tank spec for these reasons;
1) The first mail armored tank
2) An interesting synergy of absorbing and sharing damage load from attackers as well as damage mitigation with the usage of the Hunter's pet
3) The name survival itself implies it can survive; a very tanky name.

then why do tanks need healers? surviving doesnt mean enduring a lot of damage. surviving means causing yourself as little damage as possible. do you survive in real life by causing yourself large amounts of physical damage? no. you do that by staying away from the dangers.

[Sencha]

This thread again?

[solarfallz]

Survival was always the "utility+melee" tree. Raptor Strike was Survival. Wing Clip. Mongoose Bite. Lacerate (lol). Counterattack. Melee was always survival, BM has never had a single melee ability in the history of WoW.

[Saishiro]

It makes perfect sense imo. Just take The Beast Within for instance: "Go into a rage, increasing your damage by 30%. Your pet also goes into a rage, causing 50% additional damage for 18 sec. While enraged, the beast does not feel pity or remorse or fear and it cannot be stopped unless killed."

It makes no sense that you would start making more dmg using a bow or a gun from going into a rage. In fact, it'd probably be harder to even hit anything at all being in a rage since you need to be calm and focused when using ranged weapons. Dealing more damage when raging makes a lot more sense when using a melee weapon since the damage you do is based in part on how hard you swing your weapon.

Then there's Flanking Strike that's essentially just Kill Command.

IMO the name Survival meshes better with the idea that you send your pet into the fray while you stay at a safe distance taking people out. Being closer to something that could harm you doesnt seem logical as a survivalist. Beast Mastery on the other hand focuses more on being in touch with the animal within and the strong bond between hunter and pet so it makes perfect sense that you'd fight together in the thick of it watching eachothers back.

[Fuhok]

It's not going to happen. Survival is melee. BM is ranged. That's just how it is. Blizz isn't going to do an about-face on this now.

Get over it, move along.

[Konteil]

the only thing i think should have been different is marksman should have had the gun " sniper training screams rifle to me." and beastmaster should have been the bow. think native american hunters prowling with the wolf totem animals. other than that i think hunter is in a great place. switch the weps and would be perfect IMO.

[Deleted]

no hunter spec should've become meele in the first place

[ro9ue]

the only thing i think should have been different is marksman should have had the gun " sniper training screams rifle to me." and beastmaster should have been the bow. think native american hunters prowling with the wolf totem animals. other than that i think hunter is in a great place. switch the weps and would be perfect IMO.

I think that's an interesting view point, and in general context - yes - the Beast master is the crude/nature oriented spec and would be using a bow and a sniper/marksman should be using a gun.

However, in the context of World of Warcraft, I think the "Ranger" marksman is a bow user. I can't picture a Windrunner gun.

But I think that also just furthers the point of Beast Mastery being melee, using a spear - or fist weapons/dual wield. Then moving the gun to a new gadget-oriented spec.

[Prokne]

While BM should have been melee from the start, it is hard for me to think of what Survival is supposed to be from pre-WoW lore. Sometimes it seems like Survival should be a nature themed rogue with pets, sometimes just nature and magical themed. It would be weird to say that both BM and Surv should be melee because then you only have one spec using ranged weapons in the game (I personally would add a Bow/crossbow ranged spec onto monk and DH). Maybe Surv can choose and its abilities change slightly to work with either type of weapon. (Or even better, have both ranged and melee weapons that switch depending on range like classic hunter but able to maintain the same dps in both situations)

As far as gadgets, those should be used for a tinker class if it ever happens.

[c000]

in an ideal world, yes. rexxar to me was more close to bm. but i also always wanted survival to be more exotic, like using an exclusive usage of various traps and tricks. but traps would have had to be overhauled. it would not have worked with the current crappy trap system they've had since forever.

[Cracka_Bob]

Honestly I had always hoped that BM would turn into a melee spec. I remember in Wrath (I had only been playing since TBC) my guild at the time was doing ToC and on the first boss, my bow broke right after Icehowl came out. I swapped to Aspect of the Beast (back when it was a 10% melee AP boost for the hunter and the pet), laid down my Immolation Trap, and started using all the melee abilities I had on me lol. I gave the MM and SV hunters that were with us all kinds of shit because even with my broken bow and ghetto melee fighting, I still did more DPS.

[Mirishka]

I swear its just the same person making the same thread with the same ideas every week.

Such is the way of MMO-Champion, sadly.

[Dread Pirate Phayde]

Depending on how you look at it I could see it either way, as the Kraven the Hunter type where you're savage and fight tooth and claw with your beasts in someone's face, or simply as the master of beasts where you send your stampede of pets in for the attack.

[threads]

i thought about this before but i don't think a tinker really makes sense as a hunter spec. and BM as melee would've just left survival as the spec with a useless pet so i think they went the right direction.