There will never be classic servers run by Blizzard. It makes no sense.

[Dormie]

they ARE working on expansion servers... Legion... with them working on Legion, I doubt you have a chance in hell of seeing a Vanilla server any time in the next 2 years, if ever. Perhaps you missed it when the devs spoke not even 90 days ago on this very topic, and again, they slammed the door on your dream.

Because the Devs OBVIOUSLY know what they're doing..


Funny how people still quote them as the golden law even though they both create failing content and flip-flop on ideas.

[Seranthor]

Because the Devs OBVIOUSLY know what they're doing..


Funny how people still quote them as the golden law even though they both create failing content and flip-flop on ideas.

Brandon, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm reasonably certain that the devs dont make the decisions on what Blizzard decides to fund and what they decide to decline to fund. Maybe you have something that contradicts that.

[Gadzooks]

well i get this email, like many other people im sure - from blizzard every 4 months to come back to WoW. I check up on mmo champ to see whats up every now and then and go "meh" and move on. It wasnt until i noticed more and more on wow forums, wow reddit or mmochamp discussion of vanilla servers or expansion servers that peak my interests, so much so i started to play on private servers and im having a great time. My only concern is the longevity of these servers, it would really suck if my characters are gone tomorrow but im playing atm with the knowledge that this can happen, but i rather much have an official server to play vanilla on for that reason.

I cannot post on the official WoW forums (not a subscriber for years) and there is no way to send a suggestion to blizzard that i would resub if they offered such a server. My only avenue it seems would be to put in my 2cents on mmochamp forums - something i think blizzard keeps an eye on. From reading WoW forums and MMO champ forums, the discussion of vanilla servers seems to be a long running theme, in a forum echo chamber that is very anti-vanilla server in general. For a topic that gets closed all the time when its pro vanilla server, to keep popping up for years says allot about people with a strong desire for vanilla/expansion servers.

Fact is blizzard is still trying to get old players back to WoW, they /poke players like me every few months to see if they can rekindle interest in the game i used to love. So unless you speak for blizzard i think you should not make such broad statements about blizzard's side of things and make it clear its your opinion.

On another note, this server that you speak of, Nostralius (which i play on) - doesnt have donation or cash shop options, please send me a link from them asking for money because they are hard to find. I saw a reddit post about a year ago asking for donations through paypal but that link has long been broken and any query about donating to Nostralius has been answered with "they get their money through drugs LOL."

The link still works for me. Funny, that.

[Duronos]

Brandon, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm reasonably certain that the devs dont make the decisions on what Blizzard decides to fund and what they decide to decline to fund. Maybe you have something that contradicts that.

Decisions are most likely left to devs at the top of the chain, people below them can make suggestions I'd imagine but they don't actually make the decisions.

[MoanaLisa]

Decisions are most likely left to devs at the top of the chain, people below them can make suggestions I'd imagine but they don't actually make the decisions.

Agreed. Lead developers have a tremendous amount of power to affect the game (witness the original decision to revert flying in Warlords). I'm sure those decisions are approved by Morhaime if they will have an obvious effect on revenues. But I've always assumed that they had a lot of say in what happens. With subscriptions shrinking at what must be an alarming rate that may lead to more scrutiny over some things. Blizzard is odd that way. If developers trot out "good of the game" they usually get what they want. It's impossible to know whether or not Warlords is going to cause that to tighten up a bit. The most obvious example again was removal of flying in Warlords with the side effects and dissonances created by having a flying mount in the collector's edition, not to mention the impact on sales of flying mounts in the store.

Whatever you think of their first and ultimate decision in this case it wasn't very well thought through.

[Lime]

Part of me really wishes that they would. That way the people who do enjoy it would have their beloved game back and the rest would realize that it was just nostalgia.

Granted, it would never happen because of Blizzard's stance on moving forward, not backwards. Well, that and because it'd likely not generate enough revenue to be worth it.

[Not A Cat]

Long ago, during Dragon Soul when I just hated everything, I tried a private server in an attempt to relive the glory days of when I first started playing.

It was so disappointing. You really don't see how much the game has improved until you play an older version of it. I was one of those guys who was pissed when they brought the level requirement for mounts to level 30, and then eventually 20. But when I was levelling on this server I was losing my mind because of all of the fucking walking.

We still steamrolled through dungeons with relative ease, obviously not as easy as with heirlooms, but sunken temple only took a little over an hour. But even then I got bored in the place very quickly. Yeah when I ran it for the first few times when levelling my first characters it was a blast even though it took 6 hours. Because it was new, but it will never be new again so it was just tiresome.

Playing on that server just made me remember all of the bullshit that I chose to keep out of my memories. So I went back to Blizzard servers with all of the quality of life changes and was content for a while.

By today's standards, I think vanilla is awful. Doesn't change the fond memories I have, but I want them to stay as memories.

[Jacob6875]

Your lack of information is the problem, not the arguments against Blizzard doing it. If you understand the reasoning behind why Blizzard isn't doing it, as explained multiple times throughout this thread, then you don't need to ask for reasons.

Man hours dedicated to updating server code, potential of profit, plausible business model that wouldn't turn away customers, long-term market viability, long term maintenance and more. There's too much risk vs reward in having official, lag-free, secure and bug-free Vanilla servers. If it was easy as flipping a switch, Blizzard wouldn't think twice, but it's really not that simple.

It all comes down to business decisions. It has nothing to do with comparing it to some 3rd party server being hosted using workarounds.

Again this argument that Blizzard is incapable is just laughable.

Private servers are run by very small groups of people (usually for free/cheap) and some of them can emulate a live classic server very very well. I only ran into a few scripting issues in my month or so of playing on one. I had more issues when I actually played classic itself.

The don't need to update any code or fix any bugs. Just run the servers on the latest patch before 2.0 / 3.0 etc. All they need to do is put up a disclaimer letting people know that they are going to be getting little if any support playing on old servers. Treat it like a beta / test realm where you can't even contact GMs.

I can't imagine a server sitting on 1 version of a game literally forever would require more maintenance than the hundreds of live servers we have going that are being updated constantly.

The only real argument that you have is that it is possible they could lose money. Sure I guess it could be a completely failed experiment and each would have 10 people playing on them but since there are private servers with more than 20k players I'm sure plenty of people would be on them.

I mean take a look at http://www.warcraftrealms.com/realmstats.php?sort=Total

If Blizzard can make a profit supporting servers with almost no players on them I think they would make money on 20k+ people playing on a classic realm.

[Lime]

but since there are private servers with more than 20k players I'm sure plenty of people would be on them.

This point loses all traction the second you acknowledge that it's free to play. It's apples and oranges. Too many unknown variables.

How many are playing because it's free to play?
How many aren't playing on them because they aren't supported by Blizzard?

You have no way of knowing the answer to either of this. Your guess would be completely random. Using them as a "point" is downright silly.

[brunnor]

Short answer, Blizzard will give you vanilla servers when and if they believe that it is financially adventurous to them, not one second before. Until which time they believe they'll make a mountain of money from it, its just not going to happen.

Blizzard doesn't care what you and your vanilla server buddies want. No amount of whining, moaning, complaining, posting of numerous threads here, is going to make it happen. Because Money talks, vanilla tears dont.

Blizzard needs to stop trying what's going to make them hundreds of millions because it isn't working. Settle for tens of millions and stop hitting for the fences because it isn't working.

Vanilla servers, if done correctly, will increase their income. Will it be huge an everything will be right with Blizzard again? Hell no, but it will make things better.

[Seranthor]

Blizzard needs to stop trying what's going to make them hundreds of millions because it isn't working. Settle for tens of millions and stop hitting for the fences because it isn't working.

Vanilla servers, if done correctly, will increase their income. Will it be huge an everything will be right with Blizzard again? Hell no, but it will make things better.

Not one single advocate of vanilla servers can prove that Blizzard would make a profit from the venture. Yet, every one of you claim they would. Based on WHAT? I am not the one you have to convince, Blizzard is, and knowing them like we all do, they want every dollar that they can squeeze. If it could make them as much as any of you claim dont you think they'd do it? Seriously?

[Morssoe]

Blizzard servers with same bugs as private server but you need to pay subscription in order to play it. Makes me wonder why ppl have complained about private servers all along.

[Gadzooks]

Again this argument that Blizzard is incapable is just laughable.

Private servers are run by very small groups of people (usually for free/cheap) and some of them can emulate a live classic server very very well. I only ran into a few scripting issues in my month or so of playing on one. I had more issues when I actually played classic itself.

The don't need to update any code or fix any bugs. Just run the servers on the latest patch before 2.0 / 3.0 etc. All they need to do is put up a disclaimer letting people know that they are going to be getting little if any support playing on old servers. Treat it like a beta / test realm where you can't even contact GMs.

I can't imagine a server sitting on 1 version of a game literally forever would require more maintenance than the hundreds of live servers we have going that are being updated constantly.

The only real argument that you have is that it is possible they could lose money. Sure I guess it could be a completely failed experiment and each would have 10 people playing on them but since there are private servers with more than 20k players I'm sure plenty of people would be on them.

I mean take a look at http://www.warcraftrealms.com/realmstats.php?sort=Total

If Blizzard can make a profit supporting servers with almost no players on them I think they would make money on 20k+ people playing on a classic realm.

Ah, another poster who doesn't understand what a server is, and why they can't just copy code onto it and it will magically work.

What illegal servers use is an *emulation* of a what a real server does. It's only capable of doing a fraction of what a real server does. They fake it with MYSQL, when a real server runs Oracle code. The two are not compatible. Blizzard is not going to use what the illegal servers do - it won't work, and they'd have to rewrite it to work with their actual server hardware, if it will even run.

And you don't understand that the code that vanilla would require to run on - not the client, the SERVER - does not exist. And, it would cost millions and years of effort to rebuild it to work on hardware that's a decade older than the scraps of code they might have in an archive.

And you're imagining wrong. A server for Blizzard is several blades, in several racks, with custom routers and software running them. Not only do they need people there to make sure they're running, the A/C is working, and there's no network issues, but servers like that chew through HDs like candy, and a vanilla server will require drive swaps regularly, just like they did back in 2004. That's one of the things they do on Tuesday maintenance, they swap drives if it's needed. As drive hardware has improved, you'll notice they don't do it as often, but it still happens.

And, i know this will be ignored or I'll be accused of lying, and in a couple of posts yet another poster will claim that all they have to do is copy some files onto a server, and VIOLA - magic vanilla servers, because that's easier than actually researching what you're making claims about, and that doesn't support your agenda.

PS - WowCensus shows the game population for the US/EU at around the 5 million player levels. That is not "almost no players". I don't think the words you use mean what you think they do. I won't try explaining to you what 5 million x $15 a month is in real money, because you're obviously more interested in making up things, instead of reality.

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Not one single advocate of vanilla servers can prove that Blizzard would make a profit from the venture. Yet, every one of you claim they would. Based on WHAT? I am not the one you have to convince, Blizzard is, and knowing them like we all do, they want every dollar that they can squeeze. If it could make them as much as any of you claim dont you think they'd do it? Seriously?

You're arguing with magical thinking. You can try and explain how the real world works, but they'll just make up a new fantasy afterwards.

[Nostratdamnedus]

Ah, another poster who doesn't understand what a server is, and why they can't just copy code onto it and it will magically work.

What illegal servers use is an *emulation* of a what a real server does. It's only capable of doing a fraction of what a real server does. They fake it with MYSQL, when a real server runs Oracle code. The two are not compatible. Blizzard is not going to use what the illegal servers do - it won't work, and they'd have to rewrite it to work with their actual server hardware, if it will even run.

And you don't understand that the code that vanilla would require to run on - not the client, the SERVER - does not exist. And, it would cost millions and years of effort to rebuild it to work on hardware that's a decade older than the scraps of code they might have in an archive.

And you're imagining wrong. A server for Blizzard is several blades, in several racks, with custom routers and software running them. Not only do they need people there to make sure they're running, the A/C is working, and there's no network issues, but servers like that chew through HDs like candy, and a vanilla server will require drive swaps regularly, just like they did back in 2004. That's one of the things they do on Tuesday maintenance, they swap drives if it's needed. As drive hardware has improved, you'll notice they don't do it as often, but it still happens.

And, i know this will be ignored or I'll be accused of lying, and in a couple of posts yet another poster will claim that all they have to do is copy some files onto a server, and VIOLA - magic vanilla servers, because that's easier than actually researching what you're making claims about, and that doesn't support your agenda.

PS - WowCensus shows the game population for the US/EU at around the 5 million player levels. That is not "almost no players". I don't think the words you use mean what you think they do. I won't try explaining to you what 5 million x $15 a month is in real money, because you're obviously more interested in making up things, instead of reality.

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You're arguing with magical thinking. You can try and explain how the real world works, but they'll just make up a new fantasy afterwards.

the issue with you gadzooks is that you lie all the time or flat out ignore good points.

"but that is none of my business"

[Plutarch78]

There has been too many quality of life improvements added to WoW since vanilla. And no I'm not referring to LFD or LFR. Mount tabs, toy tabs, auto loot, AoE loot, more bag spaces, guild banks, barbershop, higher res gear, battle.net ID, transmog, better character models and animation, better graphics, more races to choose from, more battlegrounds just to name a few.

[Jacob6875]

There has been too many quality of life improvements added to WoW since vanilla. And no I'm not referring to LFD or LFR. Mount tabs, toy tabs, auto loot, AoE loot, more bag spaces, guild banks, barbershop, higher res gear, battle.net ID, transmog, better character models and animation, better graphics, more races to choose from, more battlegrounds just to name a few.

And yet Burning Crusade somehow had way more players than we have now, despite the lack of those features.

You could actually make a case that the more of those "quality of life improvements" have been added the fewer people play the game.

[Gadzooks]

the issue with you gadzooks is that you lie all the time or flat out ignore good points.

"but that is none of my business"

What good points? If I see any, I'll comment on them. All I see is "I want!" and magical thinking.

[Lime]

You could actually make a case that the more of those "quality of life improvements" have been added the fewer people play the game.

No, you can't directly link those. That is, unless you have some sort of proof that people are quitting the game because of those specific changes.

I like how everyone thinks they know the reason WoW is declining in subs and pretends that it's a singular reason.

[Seranthor]

And yet Burning Crusade somehow had way more players than we have now, despite the lack of those features.

You could actually make a case that the more of those "quality of life improvements" have been added the fewer people play the game.

correlation isn't causation... You appear to not understand that concept. What you are saying is as absurd as saying we should stop spending money on science, space and technology because suicides by hanging, strangulation and suffocation are going up.

[Duronos]

There has been too many quality of life improvements added to WoW since vanilla. And no I'm not referring to LFD or LFR. Mount tabs, toy tabs, auto loot, AoE loot, more bag spaces, guild banks, barbershop, higher res gear, battle.net ID, transmog, better character models and animation, better graphics, more races to choose from, more battlegrounds just to name a few.

I think it's heavily understated how much LFD and LFR (this leads into cross realm) have removed the social aspect of WoW from the game... From an MMO. That is a big reason as to why I really can't enjoy the game anymore, everything can be done for the most part solo since everything is so easy bar mythic raiding. It's why even though Vanilla is iffy (though that one private server that has way to many people is actually really well scripted surprisingly) in regards to specs, gearing, and less things like mount tabs etc. it still provides every exact positive feeling of playing WoW when I do play it.

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correlation isn't causation... You appear to not understand that concept. What you are saying is as absurd as saying we should stop spending money on science, space and technology because suicides by hanging, strangulation and suffocation are going up.

To add, you can probably correlate more suicides because of a larger growing population.