Proof of the Gun show loophole

[Roostercogburn]

I'm not a gun grabber. I'm probably the most pro gun rights advocate you'll see on this board. Here in America I believe if you can afford it, you should be able to buy it. If that happened I would have an m1abhrams sitting in my drive way.

Doesn't excuse why you asked a question about the government selling guns when this is a second amedment discussion. It's not really polite to ignore someone's question or even their point, just to ask an unrelated question.

- - - Updated - - -

It is not a vast majority. But it is a majority want stronger background checks to become law. However it also depends on the question and the mood of the country when such polls are taken. Not too long ago however, the polls showed most wanted the gun control laws to stay as they are. But I venture to say most Americans at the present want gun background check loopholes eliminated and better mental health checks.

Dude. Each time I mention mental health, people act like I am speaking nonsense and refute by saying how the real issue is guns being sold in candy stores in Indiana are making their way to Chicago.

I think you are wrong. Mental health is not a priority here, it should be...

people either want more laws on the books , or what the current laws enforced.

Those are the sides.

[Ripster42]

I love this.

And yes. We already know liberals don't know dick about guns or how to get one. Fully auto guns are illegal as fuck yet thy claim any black rifle is fully auto.
?

No, they're not. You just need an expensive permit and the gun itself has to be manufactured prior to 1986.

[Tijuana]

The "gun show loophole" may be nonsense but, there is absolutely a "private sale loophole". There is no background check required by law for one private citizen to sell a gun to another private citizen. It's my opinion that, those types of sales should only be allowed at gun shows, or via some kind of check done at places that sell guns. There is in fact a loophole, regardless of what you want to call it.

Also, I'm not anti-gun, I just for equal enforcement of all laws, if we are going to have them.

[Deathcries]

No, they're not. You just need an expensive permit and the gun itself has to be manufactured prior to 1986.

Yeah, they explain that in the video. Better have 20 grand plus to spend as well if you want an m16 lower.

- - - Updated - - -

The "gun show loophole" may be nonsense but, there is absolutely a "private sale loophole". There is no background check required by law for one private citizen to sell a gun to another private citizen. It's my opinion that, those types of sales should only be allowed at gun shows, or via some kind of check done at places that sell guns. There is in fact a loophole, regardless of what you want to call it.

Also, I'm not anti-gun, I just for equal enforcement of all laws, if we are going to have them.

It's illegal to sell to someone across state lines unless you go through an ffl dealer in both states which does a NICS check, and if you sell to a felon you're considered a co-conspirator which results in a felony. With being a private seller doing a private sell, it does come with a serious risk and you better know the laws.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

It is not a vast majority. But it is a majority want stronger background checks to become law. However it also depends on the question and the mood of the country when such polls are taken. Not too long ago however, the polls showed most wanted the gun control laws to stay as they are.

CBS News Poll Regarding Background checks for all buyers:



Clearly shows the Vast Majority wants stronger background checks.

CBS News poll regarding whether Gun laws should be more strict, Less Strict, or Stay the same:



Clearly shows that a small majority of Americans want stricter gun laws...only a third want the laws to stay the same.

[Roostercogburn]

No, they're not. You just need an expensive permit and the gun itself has to be manufactured prior to 1986.

...

Step 1-You must find a dealer with a Class III FFL as they're the only ones who may deal in NFA weapons (machine guns, silencers, etc.) and select a weapon that was registered in the NFA registry before 1986 (this only applies for full-auto, silencers and AOW can be brand new)

Step 2-You must make your application to both the federal gov't and your local chief law enforcement officer, both must approve.

Step 3-Pay the $200 tax stamp

Step 4-Take posession of your weapon.

The largest impediment is that the NFA registry was closed to full-auto in 1986, therefore only LEOs or Class III FFL's may legally posess a post-86 full auto. Because of this, the price of pre-86 full-autos is very high (typically $10K and up).

Good luck with that. For all intents and purposes it's illegal as fuck. The only way it is legal is if you pay the high costs, go through the lengthy background checks, and find a dealer that is allowed to sell such weapons (he has also gone through a lot of checks) and then you can only buy one made prior to 1986 if he happens to have one on hand.

But do tell me how its totes legal to just go out and buy a machine gun as easy as these politicians make it seem.

I'll wait.

[Ghostpanther]

CBS News Poll Regarding Background checks for all buyers:



Clearly shows the Vast Majority wants stronger background checks.

CBS News poll regarding whether Gun laws should be more strict, Less Strict, or Stay the same:



Clearly shows that a small majority of Americans want stricter gun laws...only a third want the laws to stay the same.

The chart tells me the vast majority want background checks. It also tells me a small majority ( 52% ) want more strict gun laws. It does not tell me the vast majority want stronger background checks. :P

[Doctor Amadeus]

Steven Crowder, really can we post [Pranks Gone Wrong] next of unfunny assholes like this failed comedian trying to be edgy and irrelevant like he is in almost all the publicity attempts he fails at.

For the love of god one of the gun shop employees has to have his face blurred because he obviously didn't even consent to being in the video, this video has almost nothing to do with the issue, and is actually more of a stunt.

Both as a gun owner and someone with any decency, I am insulted by this video even being put up here, not to mention there is already a GUN CONTROL thread for this issue.

[Orbitus]

Do you even 2nd amendment bro? A well regulated (in the Oxford dictionary in that time meant skilled or proficient Edward Gibbon's said a well regulated legion was most successful) militia (citizen) being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

There is no buts after shall not be infringed. Pro gun control/anti gunners can suck my left but and make the right one jealous. If you want them dont be a fucking beta/coward and stop putting others lives in danger for your ideology. Be a man and Molan Labe mother fucker.

So you are calling the Supreme Court over the last couple hundred years, BETA? Because they have upheld gun laws quite often. Including banning certain weapons like Automatics, grenades and explosives, then background checks and waiting periods.

[ringpriest]

I'm not a gun grabber. I'm probably the most pro gun rights advocate you'll see on this board. Here in America I believe if you can afford it, you should be able to buy it. If that happened I would have an m1abhrams sitting in my drive way.

Well... I don't believe the M1 is available on the open market, but there's very little (besides lots and lots on money) between you and a T-72 - tanks are quite legal to own; now if you want one with a working main gun... you have to jump through an awful lot of hoops, but given some of the functional artillery I've seen legally in private hands, I'd guess it would be possible.

[Rooflesstoofless]

I'm all for background checks on every firearm purchase (private, public, whatever)....but if someone isn't a danger to themselves or others they should be allowed to have the same kind of firearms our government gives to the Mexican gangs.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

The chart tells me the vast majority want background checks. It also tells me a small majority ( 52% ) want more strict gun laws. It does not tell me the vast majority want stronger background checks. :P

They want background checks for ALL buyers. That would include those that buy them at gun shows.

And I already said it was a small majority that are looking for stricter gun laws...but it is a majority...which is in direct opposition to your claim that most Americans want gun laws to stay the same. Only about 1/3 want gun laws to stay exactly as they are.

[schwarzkopf]

Video has a link of Hillary Bernie and a few news reporters talking about fully automatic guns being sold...

Yeah, sound bites. Bernie has no interest in universal gun control for the most part, that's Hillary's thing. His policy mentions nothing about automatic weapons.

[Sunseeker]

I really don't need to watch 10 minutes of this guy pretending to be a gun-crazy dumbass.

[Stormdash]

CBS News Poll Regarding Background checks for all buyers:



Clearly shows the Vast Majority wants stronger background checks.

CBS News poll regarding whether Gun laws should be more strict, Less Strict, or Stay the same:



Clearly shows that a small majority of Americans want stricter gun laws...only a third want the laws to stay the same.

Garbage in, garbage out -- the poll gives no indication of what, if anything, the respondents actually know about existing gun law and the questions are certainly vague and empty enough to make sure it doesn't help them in that regard. Those are two questions that call for an emotional reaction, basically, not a rational one.

[PosPosPos]

This is the biggest load of crap. Chicago has the highest murder rate in the country and also has some of the toughest gun laws in the country. Until recently it was illegal to even own a hand gun. When DC was the murder capital, it had a complete ban on gun ownership. NYC, the same. This line of thought needs to end and people should be called out on it when they espouse it. You can't buy a handgun outside of your state of residence. So all the Salon article claiming that criminals cross over to Indiana to buy guns are completely wrong or misleading. Is it possible if not likely that some people legally buy a gun and then sell it illegally? Of course, but your background checks and waiting periods won't do anything to stop that.

Let's ignore the multitudes of first world nations which have expressively forbidden guns as a whole and have significantly lower gun homicide/murder rates than the US.

You say that one "can't buy a handgun outside of their state of residence" - this is untrue. Even if it is illegal, nobody bothers to check credentials anyway, so the effective situation is, yes, people can buy whatever guns they like outside of their state of residence, and bring guns into their state of residence.

I mean, what use are laws if not enforced? See, this is what extreme right wing nutters love to say: they use a situation where the law has obviously not been enforced, or can't be enforced due to multiple standards - then use it as "justification" to loosen or remove regulation altogether.

#rightwinglogic

- - - Updated - - -

Garbage in, garbage out -- the poll gives no indication of what, if anything, the respondents actually know about existing gun law and the questions are certainly vague and empty enough to make sure it doesn't help them in that regard. Those are two questions that call for an emotional reaction, basically, not a rational one.

Here's the thing - the right wing is nothing but an appeal to emotion:

An appeal to paranoia

An appeal to homicidal tendencies

An appeal to sociopathy

An appeal to crass sadism

All their proposed policies/actions involve increasing suffering for anyone who isn't the top 1%, promote violence and murder, promote segregation etc.

[Stormdash]

Here's the thing - the right wing is nothing but an appeal to emotion:

An appeal to paranoia

An appeal to homicidal tendencies

An appeal to sociopathy

An appeal to crass sadism

All their proposed policies/actions involve increasing suffering for anyone who isn't the top 1%, promote violence and murder, promote segregation etc.

And that vacuous, histrionic laundry list of cliches brought to you with no apparent sense of irony.

[Mormolyce]

I don't even see why you need a gun show loophole when you can just straw purchase.

I guess that's so even people without friends can get guns they don't have permits for.

[spinner981]

No, he is doing this in one of the 17 states that require it. But there are 33 other states that do not require it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

Also, linking Stephen Crowder, that is about the worst source you could have ever used. He just happens to be in one of the states that either has the law that you can't buy from a personal dealer at a gunshow without a NICS check or he was buying from a licensed arms dealer. Either way, he didn't debunk anything. He just made his followers stupider for watching it.

Isn't the point behind the 'gun show loophole' that people can buy weapons without a background check, even in states that normally require them? Since, from your own source: "Gun show loophole, gun law loophole, Brady law loophole (or Brady bill loophole), private sale loophole, home sale loophole, or private sale exemption is a political term in the United States referring to sales of firearms by private sellers, including those done at gun shows, dubbed the "secondary market". The term refers to the viewpoint that there is an inadequacy in federal law, under which "any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the State where he resides as long as he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms"."

I don't think it's about 'proving' whether or not you need a background check or not, but whether or not you can buy a weapon at a gun-show or private seller without a background check. So you aren't really actually responding to what the video is even about, yet calling Crowder's watchers 'stupid'.

Also, he says in the video that he specifically went to a gun show in Indiana, which was one that obama said you could buy a gun from without a background check. Turns out, they weren't letting him buy a gun without a background check. Also, Indiana isn't one of the states listed in your source for being a state that requires a background check for private sales, so I don't know what's going on there.

[Mormolyce]

Garbage in, garbage out -- the poll gives no indication of what, if anything, the respondents actually know about existing gun law and the questions are certainly vague and empty enough to make sure it doesn't help them in that regard. Those are two questions that call for an emotional reaction, basically, not a rational one.

What's to know? The US has practically none.