Multiple raids are awesome

[SoulSoBreezy]

For raids if they don't want to raid why make them?

That's the question that led to the creation of LFR in the first place.

I disagree on the limitations of CM ilvl gear. They should be equal stat wise.
Taking trinkets out of the equation, it wouldn't make sense if a fully geared CM team had no hope of outperforming a fully geared Mythic team. There're balances to this:
Tier bonuses don't work in CMs.
Naturally CMs don't drop tier-like gear.

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Noodle carts were amazing. I don't know why they didn't carry over into some variation in WOD.

"Deluxe Portable War Rations" XD

Demon Barbeque
"Smells like fel."

[Bill Cypher]

That's the question that led to the creation of LFR in the first place.

I disagree on the limitations of CM ilvl gear. They should be equal stat wise.
Taking trinkets out of the equation, it wouldn't make sense if a fully geared CM team had no hope of outperforming a fully geared Mythic team. There're balances to this:
Tier bonuses don't work in CMs.
Naturally CMs don't drop tier-like gear.

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Demon Barbeque
"Smells like fel."

It's not the rewards I question but the way they set it up. I have a bad feeling the grind will make them a niche thing...

[Echo of Soul]

No one has to do multiple difficulties if they don't have to. We've just fooled ourselves into think we did.

That's not actually true. The way iLvl distribution is handled heroic gear is always better than mythic gear from the previous tier for example. Sure we're not "forced" to do heroic but you'd be at a huge disadvantage if you went from mythic in one tier straight to mythic in the next tier, which should be the logical progression path but it's not. Blizzard want you to clear the raid on one difficulty and then start over and do it all over gain at another difficulty, otherwise they would've allocated the iLvls differently.

[Ipsissimus]

Furthermore, in HFC tier set bonuses and trinkets (both class and general) were so much stronger than the BRF ones that Mythic raiders benefited massively from clearing Normal as well.

Personally, I don't have a problem with having to invest effort and time to be progressing at a given rate. However, it genuinely does become quite tedious and boring straight away when you do the same instance over 3 difficulties in the same week. I'd much rather have to clear some new dungeons, and would much rather still not have them inflate everything so massively.

[SoulSoBreezy]

It's not the rewards I question but the way they set it up. I have a bad feeling the grind will make them a niche thing...

We talking about CMs or raiding?
Just kidding, but I'm kind of making a point by asking that.

[Bill Cypher]

We talking about CMs or raiding?
Just kidding, but I'm kind of making a point by asking that.

The stones don't carry over... you need to clear a dungeon ten or so times from the looks of it each week or find someone who did....

That is the big issue I see it has a really badly designed grind round getting stones leveled each week. I would rather the ability to simply set the level manually.

[SoulSoBreezy]

That's not actually true. The way iLvl distribution is handled heroic gear is always better than mythic gear from the previous tier for example. Sure we're not "forced" to do heroic but you'd be at a huge disadvantage if you went from mythic in one tier straight to mythic in the next tier, which should be the logical progression path but it's not. Blizzard want you to clear the raid on one difficulty and then start over and do it all over gain at another difficulty, otherwise they would've allocated the iLvls differently.

The choice is still there. It's likely the wrong choice to make of course.
And if difficulties weren't a thing, they'd just do the previous raid as you say. What's so different?

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The stones don't carry over... you need to clear a dungeon ten or so times from the looks of it each week or find someone who did....

That is the big issue I see it has a really badly designed grind round getting stones leveled each week. I would rather the ability to simply set the level manually.

It'd be similar to how players wanted to just select their highest unlocked difficulty rather than build up their rift keys.
For better or worse, the way they intend to design CMs now is the safer way to go; this way if players are dissatisfied with how long it takes to build up, they can tune things appropriately and eventually unlock the ability to choose levels.
If choosing levels brings about some sort of unintended consequence (tuning is too easy for example), Blizzard may take that away. That'd probably have a worse impact.
You're right with your concerns, but I also see Blizzard wanting to be careful. This is a new endgame paradigm being brought in, after all.

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Furthermore, in HFC tier set bonuses and trinkets (both class and general) were so much stronger than the BRF ones that Mythic raiders benefited massively from clearing Normal as well.

Personally, I don't have a problem with having to invest effort and time to be progressing at a given rate. However, it genuinely does become quite tedious and boring straight away when you do the same instance over 3 difficulties in the same week. I'd much rather have to clear some new dungeons, and would much rather still not have them inflate everything so massively.

How long is a dungeon new? What'd be the difference between running the same raid three times, or xyz combination?
We can argue this back and forth, and in the end it'd probably be me running out of things to say, but the point is that this argument can take place. My playstyle might be different from yours. Person abc may love nothing more than to run the same thing three times because reasons.
Players like having the choice to do - or not do - whatever.

[Bill Cypher]

It'd be similar to how players wanted to just select their highest unlocked difficulty rather than build up their rift keys.
For better or worse, the way they intend to design CMs now is the safer way to go; this way if players are dissatisfied with how long it takes to build up, they can tune things appropriately and eventually unlock the ability to choose levels.
If choosing levels brings about some sort of unintended consequence (tuning is too easy for example), Blizzard may take that away. That'd probably have a worse impact.
You're right with your concerns, but I also see Blizzard wanting to be careful. This is a new endgame paradigm being brought in, after all.

It just seems tedious to me. If my goal is to get to gameplay I find interesting how does it benefit me to grind out the dungeon for six hours to get there...

It is early the system isn't tested but I hope that they really consider it so far one stone is given per week with different buffs to mobs. I can't see how choosing levels would effect that...

Still it seems a oversight.

[Caliph]

Multiple instances suck especially 4 of the same instance. I just can't believe that people would have such a hard time learning such simple concepts i.e. rotations, cds, enchants, how to move, where to move, blah blah blah. Watch a couple videos.

Blizzard should've just made their own how to videos on their forums. oh wait the same tutorials are in a hundred places already.

blizzard is stupid.

[SoulSoBreezy]

It just seems tedious to me. If my goal is to get to gameplay I find interesting how does it benefit me to grind out the dungeon for six hours to get there...

It is early the system isn't tested but I hope that they really consider it so far one stone is given per week with different buffs to mobs. I can't see how choosing levels would effect that...

Still it seems a oversight.

Say Method walks in, chooses the highest possible difficulty and rolls it. They now have gear several *tiers* ahead of everyone else.

This is a extreme exaggeration of what's possible and as you say, this isn't tested. I know that once prot paladins are in alpha and CMs are being tested I'll provide feedback and rant about it some here and/or on a video.

[Bill Cypher]

Say Method walks in, chooses the highest possible difficulty and rolls it. They now have gear several *tiers* ahead of everyone else.

This is a extreme exaggeration of what's possible and as you say, this isn't tested. I know that once prot paladins are in alpha and CMs are being tested I'll provide feedback and rant about it some here and/or on a video.

I don't see the problem with your example...

If you can clear it on the highest you can clear it on any other level

[Aviconus]

I don't raid mythic (yet) but i'm 13/13HM (solo), 12/13HM with my guild. I considered myself good back in the day, had a few server firsts here and there and a few top 100 world kills. That said, I just returned back around Oct '15, having taken a break when Carebears and Pokemon was announced. I think the difficulty curve is fine where it's at. No guild, however geared they were was going to jump in to Mythic HFC sporting 675s. Just because they raid 5-6 days a week does not mean that they are instantly better than everyone else. There are people/guilds that don't mind slow rolling it and not being burnt out and bored after the first 2 months of the raid's release. Does that make us bad players? Shortening (a diff thread) or creating multiple raids doesn't really change that fact either. I dunno where people are getting the idea of Mythic or Bust, but I quite enjoyed the difficulty that was in some of the hardmode encounters. Sure, I look forward to one day enjoying (or hating) mythic HFC with my guild, but it's no dire need for us to raid mythics, like some guilds prefer.

[Echo of Soul]

And if difficulties weren't a thing, they'd just do the previous raid as you say. What's so different?

Scenery. I don't enjoy spending all my time in the same spot, be it a garrison or a certain raid. You don't get bored and start to loathe one raid as quickly.