Why can't the Lich King use the Scourge against the Legion?

[mizeri]

maybe it will be like the last battle in lord of the rings, when we think all hope is lost, here comes the scourge to give us that extra push that we needed to push the legion back.

[Arrashi]

In all seriousness, I wouldn't be surprised to see N'Zoth drawing power from the remains of the deceased Old Gods of Azeroth. Hell, it would be a decent twist if that was N'Zoth's plan all along, also explaining why the Old Gods were so obsessed in battling each other to defeat and claim dominance over all their other "colleagues".

Not bad, but it would depend, can he "absorb" only the ones fully defeated ? Or maybe just weakened. Not to mention, that after seeing ending of darkest dungeon, im not sure if i want him to absorb anything.

[docterfreeze]

Uh, what weapon would bolvar use once he thaws? Frostmourne is gone. Can't fight the legion without a Lich King worthy weapon

[Deleted]

Uh, what weapon would bolvar use once he thaws? Frostmourne is gone. Can't fight the legion without a Lich King worthy weapon

Ner'zhul didn't have a weapon.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

I have to agree, its simply because they haven't written it properly. I don't think there is any evidence for or against this happening at this point in any real written form. Its just not going to.

But then again, I don't REALLY think its poorly written, because if the Lich King were to go against the Legion in this expansion, there would be too much conflict. It really would two expansion's worth of conflict honestly. Maybe next one!

[Deleted]

We know for a fact that strong willed individuals alone can break away from the lich king

After he was losing power.

the ebon blade is the most recent example

They never freed themselves, it was down to the Light and Tirion.

the valkyr freed themselves through a pact as well

Bolvar was dormant at the time.

we know when the lich king had lost some power three dreadlords took over a sizeable part of the scourge in Lordaeron.

Technically speaking, it was Arthas who lost control over his warriors thanks to his connection to the Lich King. Even so, the Scourge still managed to retain most of Lordaeron even after the Dreadlord's coup up until Arthas reawakened in Wrath.

The point is the legion knows the potential threat level of the lich king they created him and gave him these powers in the first place, they know their every weakness and strength. So if we consider all that sending the mindless hordes of the undead against the Legion is not a really good idea. Though it would have been very effective against the iron horde.

The Lich King broke from the Legion's control and thwarted their attempts to destroy him. That alone proves that he's something of an unknown quantity to the Legion.

[Zulkhan]

Not bad, but it would depend, can he "absorb" only the ones fully defeated ?

It's not 100% clear how many Old Gods are left on Azeroth (nor if others could "slip through", their origin place isn't Azeroth itself after all) but I could see N'Zoth "feast" or having its followers doing rituals or some shit on those remains to establish a connection. With enough power we could see it to try to do the same thing on the other ones, maybe force them into submission and force them to go through the same process "willingly" (and be disposed of when N'Zoth has enough power to destroy them).
In the end, I always found curious this thing about N'Zoth "lurking" and Titans "unable to defeat it", like they couldn't reach it somehow and kept waiting and scheming in the shadows. Even though Titans messed the Old Gods' personal affairs, this eternal battle all of theirs could have kept going as well, even though in a subtle way. It isn't far-fetched to think this was N'Zoth's agenda, with all the other Old Gods focused on regain freedom and N'Zoth being the only sucker the Titans couldn't put any restraint on it.

Also, even though slightly unrelated (maybe?) I still want to know what this "master" AU Cho'Gall talked in Highmaul is about. It's kinda obvious to me that it wasn't anything Legion-related, otherwise he would have kept his place alongside Gul'dan, or at least trying to usurp Gul'dan's place of favor with the upper ranks of the Legion, and Cho'Gall seemed to have his head too deep into Void shit rather than fel/demon magic. Blizzard said there are a couple of plot points in WoD left to be explored in the future, so here I hope.

The Lich King broke from the Legion's control and thwarted their attempts to destroy him.

Yeah but back then they could only use indirect means and mortal followers alone in order to ensure this task done. This time they've reached Azeroth in full force once again, most likely worse than anything seen in WC3 and subtle machinations ain't going to work anymore since they very much know what to expect from their rebellious creation.

[Aquamonkey]

Ner'zhul didn't have a weapon.

Arthas was his weapon.

Even so, the Scourge still managed to retain most of Lordaeron even after the Dreadlord's coup up until Arthas reawakened in Wrath.

Ner'zhul lost control of half the Scourge in Lordaeron.

The Lich King broke from the Legion's control and thwarted their attempts to destroy him. That alone proves that he's something of an unknown quantity to the Legion.

The LK only dared do that after the Legion was eradicated in Kalimdor.

[Rockwood]

What the DK artifact quests point out is that Bolvar is using all of his psychic powers to keep the scourge in check in Northrend but the further you get from the Frozen Throne the less control he has. I picture like mind control WiFi.
Icecrown is the mind control WiFi hub for Nothrend but the signal loses strength as you go further away. This is why the plague land scourge are mindless and just tearing crap up with no pattern or reason.
Powerful dreadlords are their own type of WiFi that can take over the scourge if they are far away from Icecrown/ ie have low Lich King signal.
Why Arthas Lich King was powerful is because he was mobile and took his signal everywhere.
So if the scourge went to fight the legion, they would get turned over to the more powerful and local dreadlord psychic WiFi. If the legion invades Northern then the Lich King would have more powerful psychic WiFi. (it is the same concept as the Zerg from StarCraft).

Also we don't want to use the scourge because they tend to mess things up like plaguelands and the ghost lands.

[Deleted]

Arthas was his weapon.

And now the PC is Bolvar's weapon in the same way. Perhaps even more powerful than Arthas since Icebringer and Soulreaper are described as "blades without equal".

Ner'zhul lost control of half the Scourge in Lordaeron.

And the Scourge still retained complete and uncontested control of the Eastern and Western Plaguelands.

The LK only dared do that after the Legion was eradicated in Kalimdor.

Which he indirectly orchestrated.

What the DK artifact quests point out is that Bolvar is using all of his psychic powers to keep the scourge in check in Northrend but the further you get from the Frozen Throne the less control he has. I picture like mind control WiFi.
Icecrown is the mind control WiFi hub for Nothrend but the signal loses strength as you go further away. This is why the plague land scourge are mindless and just tearing crap up with no pattern or reason.
Powerful dreadlords are their own type of WiFi that can take over the scourge if they are far away from Icecrown/ ie have low Lich King signal.
Why Arthas Lich King was powerful is because he was mobile and took his signal everywhere.
So if the scourge went to fight the legion, they would get turned over to the more powerful and local dreadlord psychic WiFi. If the legion invades Northern then the Lich King would have more powerful psychic WiFi. (it is the same concept as the Zerg from StarCraft).

Also we don't want to use the scourge because they tend to mess things up like plaguelands and the ghost lands.

Unless they've changed the questline drastically from what I saw on Nobbel's streams, that isn't implied anywhere. It is mentioned by Darion however that the Lich King is Azeroth's strongest ally in the fight against the Legion.

[Aquamonkey]

And the Scourge still retained complete and uncontested control of the Eastern and Western Plaguelands.

Actually, I should have been more accurate. The LK lost control over most of the Scourge in Lordaeron. Sylvanas commanded half of them. The dreadlords controlled their own large chunk of Scourge along with various demons. The LK's forces were easily overwhelmed and Arthas had to flee. It was the dreadlords who controlled the Plaguelands and against them whom Sylvanas had to fight.

The LK still had Cult of the Damned in the Plaguelands to help control the Scourge there and increase the power base after the LK was no longer dying.

Which he indirectly orchestrated.

Not even a little. He was the Legion's bitch doing exactly what they asked. Ner'zhul had nothing to do with Archimonde wanting to storm off to suck up the Well or his subsequent defeat by wisps.

[Kallisto]

Which he indirectly orchestrated.

Not really, it was Archimonde making a direct run towards the WoE instead of consilidating his base in Lordaeron and Northrend which cost him. If he played the long game and went south and north. Not allowing any legion on Kalimdor while he took control of the other two continents he would have easily had the numbers and tactical advantage to defeat what little remnants of civilization was left on Kalimdor. Especially with the Orcs and night elves killing each other off.

[Deleted]

Because Wotlk ended on a fucking idiotic note; that the scourge needs a Lich King or it goes rampage and kills the world, and that the knowledge of there still being a Lich King can't get out.
Like what? Did nobody else wonder why the fuck we left the scourge largely intact? Is nobody concerned about what goes on in Northrend now? It's so fucking stupid it hurts.

Why the fuck would a rampant scourge be worse than a controlled one? Complete fucking bullshit.

Uhhhh I think you're overlooking something.

No Lich King = rampant scourge.

Lich King = controlled and docile scourge.

[Mahmeya]

I believe the fire mage artifact, Bolvar says that if you fail, the scourge will consume you. That is another part which I'd consider to take as proof that he has some problems controlling the scourge.
Arthas was DK for some time before becoming Lich king, learning necromancy from KT and somewhat maybe the dreadlords as well. He was leading massive army against Quel'thalas (yes, with the support from Ner'zhul through Frostmourne). Bolvar had no experience with mind control over undead, let alone at large distances. Before he get used to it, some broke free (as man mentioned before), some were locked up (Violet hold 2.0 bosses), some probably killed (I doubt that Argent Crusade and Ebon blade would just walk away - they would probably need to fight their way out of the citadel as Bolvar was struggling to grasp his new powers)... what I wonder more, the alliance gunship carries pretty large bomb, why was it not used to just nuke the whole valley in icecrown and turn the scourge there to smooth bone dust? Or maybe it was to some degree, and the scourge outside ICC walls is not that numerous anymore?
Do we actually know in what state the scourge is, exactly?

Why the fuck would a rampant scourge be worse than a controlled one? Complete fucking bullshit.

They would just run around, probably attacking and infecting anyone unlucky enough to cross their path.

Also, if I remember the warcraft 3 mission intros/outros correctly, I believe KT explains at some point, that "LK was created to control the scourge to destroy Legion's opposition (before summonning Archimonde) and readlords tasked to make sure he does not fail - for which they had to be able to overtake control if we visibly betrayed them. Hence why he probably willingly let them control the scourge after fall of Dalaran, and use Illidan as his pawn to defeat the demons. After that, he just sent Arthas to deal with the clueless dreadlords (TFT Undead mission #1 intro) - after which, he'd take control back if Illidan's meddling would not crack the ice around him that basically sealed his power inside the frozen throne.

[Deleted]

Bolvar, Lich King, servant of death - sat ready on his throne eating yoghurt, waiting for an expansion where he's free to have an actual story.

[shoc]

Like I said before, Bolvar is not the leader of the Scourge. He is the Jailor of the Damned. He can't do shit but keep them from going on a rampage. Considering the Cult of the Damned is still running independent of Bolvar I'd say he isn't even doing a good job at that too, let alone actually redirect the rampage towards the Legion.

[Zulkhan]

Considering the Cult of the Damned is still running independent of Bolvar I'd say he isn't even doing a good job at that too

He can't do shit about it though. The Cult of the Damned served the Lich King willingly and willingly they can refuse to follow him. Bolvar is the pseudo-equivalent of a puppet leader placed by Arthas' very slayers to held the Scourge in check, they'll clearly do anything to oppose him and possibly replace him with a "true" Lich King.

[shoc]

He can't do shit about it though. The Cult of the Damned served the Lich King willingly and willingly they can refuse to follow him. Bolvar is the pseudo-equivalent of a puppet leader placed by Arthas' very slayers to held the Scourge in check, they'll clearly do anything to oppose him and possibly replace him with a "true" Lich King.

Under the assumption that Kel'thuzad is still alive and still leading the Cult of the Damned, and the fact that KT was bound to serve the LK in the same manner that Sylvanas was, I would assume that with Bolvar taking control of the Scourge that Kel'thuzad has broken free from his grasp a la Sylvanas but continues to lead the CotD.

So keeping the Scourge in check is really all Bolvar can do. Countering the OP's argument that the Lich King could use the Scourge against the Legion.

[Zulkhan]

Under the assumption that Kel'thuzad is still alive and still leading the Cult of the Damned, and the fact that KT was bound to serve the LK in the same manner that Sylvanas was, I would assume that with Bolvar taking control of the Scourge that Kel'thuzad has broken free from his grasp a la Sylvanas but continues to lead the CotD.

Kel'Thuzad's whole story utterly implied that he always served the Lich King willingly, like the rest of the cult. Let's not forget he did the Lich King's bidding even before he became a Lich. Eligor implies it too:

"The Lich, Kel'Thuzad. He serves the Lich King without question, a necromancer of great prowess in life, turned to a master of necromancy after his death. It is said he is the most loyal of the Lich King's subjects."

Sylvanas and Anub'Arak were effectively enslaved, Kel'Thuzad never was.

[Alienshroom]

I think if they felt compelled enough to flesh it out it would actually be happening.