Mythic Archimonde Help Requested

[Dracodraco]

Does hand of purity still work? Someone said the fight got hotfixed to make it ineffective on soaking fire now. Not sure how true it is though haha.

Fight wasn't doable without hand of purity before it was hotfixed. After the hotfix, Hand of purity was nerfed (from 80 to 60%? I think) and the damage taken was nerfed in accordance, to make sure that guilds without 3x paladins had a shot at killing the boss.

[Gaidax]

Phase one being 100-70% correct? Not 85%. I don't understand how we are struggling so much when we surpassed the dps requirement to get only 3 doomlords on Manno....

So just to confirm the goal is lust on pull, don't hold dps, and get him from 100 to 70% before 2nd/3rd doom fire? That seems nuts haha. Do you ignore the tank add and burn boss only?

Phase 1 is 100-70% All this talk about stopping DPS at 85% and such is irrelevant nowadays.

Damage in phase 1 should go by this priority Doomfire Spirit (roflstomp those ASAP) > Archimonde... Doomcallers should be ignored.

You have 2 options how to manage P1:

1. You can Bloodlust and burn Archimonde like mad to get only 1 Doomfire (which makes P2 much easier).
2. You can save Bloodlust and burn Archimonde to get 2 doomfires, this way P2 is a bit tougher, but you have bloodlust in the bag for a very hairy moment in P3 (first time when 4 Infernals spawn for example).

My guild is doing the second option, but it's not like it's the best - we're like trained monkey - we do it like this and it works for us.

[Nitros14]

Having lust for phase 3 is super nice when you get twisted darkness + rain of chaos + seething corruption within 10 seconds.

[Marhault]

We used pots + 3 minutes for that timing (Falls at roughly 6 minutes into our fight).

[Dracodraco]

Phase 1 is 100-70% All this talk about stopping DPS at 85% and such is irrelevant nowadays.

Damage in phase 1 should go by this priority Doomfire Spirit (roflstomp those ASAP) > Archimonde... Doomcallers should be ignored.

You have 2 options how to manage P1:

1. You can Bloodlust and burn Archimonde like mad to get only 1 Doomfire (which makes P2 much easier).
2. You can save Bloodlust and burn Archimonde to get 2 doomfires, this way P2 is a bit tougher, but you have bloodlust in the bag for a very hairy moment in P3 (first time when 4 Infernals spawn for example).

My guild is doing the second option, but it's not like it's the best - we're like trained monkey - we do it like this and it works for us.

Stopping DPS at 85% is irrelevant to your guild. Depending on OP's guild, it may or may not be. No reason to disregard entirely valid tactics that can help them improve (such as holding dps/cooldowns at 85% in order to gain more time to push the boss into P2 before fourth doomfire). If that's what they need, houndreds of guilds killed it that way, and it is perfectly doable.
In fact, if that is a requirement for them, they should 100% save lust for P3, as they WILL need it to get through that phase.

[Khorm]

4 doom fires? Are you guys doing hardmode with no rings?

[Nitros14]

4 doom fires? Are you guys doing hardmode with no rings?

Method got 3 doomfires with no rings didn't they?

[Dracodraco]

Method got 3 doomfires with no rings didn't they?

With an optimised setup yep.

[Khorm]

Method got 3 doomfires with no rings didn't they?

And these guys aren't Method.

[Summer]

You've got a lot of good answers already. In case it's of any help I'll throw in here a short guide I wrote for trials in my guild coming on our farm kills, maybe you can get something from that to help with the rest of it as well. There's much better guides obviously but most of them were done before the ilvl boosts and tend to be really long as well :P

This was for our original "4 heal, 2 doomfires" tactic. "1 doomfire 3 healers" is also fine.

Marker placements in P1/ P2 here: http://bossblueprint.com/savedImages.../tMWWUT8wB.jpg
(Tanks drop their doomfire on skull, ranged soakers around red and blue.)

--

Before reading this make sure you know what the following P3 abilities are: Dark Conduit, Source of Chaos, Void Stars, Seething Corruption and especially Mark of the Legion.

P1
Pop hero and go nuts on the boss. Ignore the first doomfire, it will be passively cleaved down. Do not be an idiot and stand in the fire (tanks will pick this up); if you do end up getting a stack drop it on skull marker and call it out. Ignore the Deathcaller until we're phasing.
Find a spot on pull already for Shadowfel burst. Those with immunities stand far out and on the edges; those without try to be in the middle ish area. If you get thrown up and need people to soak you have to quickly call out "left" "middle" or "right" (or sometimes "front" or "back"). Those who do not need soakers keep quiet, raid moves accordingly to the ones that need people in them. Immediately after the Shadowfel burst is over ranged and healers stack close to the blue marker to get shadow immunity and the second doomfire spawns, this needs to be nuked down asap. If you get the doomfire fixate kite it towards the entrance, be awake as getting it spawn on top of the range pile would be *bad*. Do not be an idiot and soak any fire stacks (if you do drop them on red). When the Deathcaller spawns focus it down and we're ready to phase.

P2
Phase two is the hardest part of the fight where it's easy to die or wipe the raid, BUT the mechanics are very simple. First a word on positioning: blue - red marker side is for doomfire soakers and their healers. No-one else goes anywhere near those markers. Moon marks the edge of the area for ranged; do not ever go closer to skull than that. Make a circle ish around the boss loosely spread and wait for the arrows (Wrough Chaos). Ranged stay out of melee. Once the arrows come the rule is: DO NOT MOVE. If you simply have to move because 3 arrows are clipping you or whatever, you only move along your own arrow.

P2 timings go like this:

Arrows 1
Shackles 1
Arrows 2, Shackles 2 during it
Shackles 3
Arrows 3
Shackles 4 - these are not broken
*phasing*

A word on the Shackles. This is where it's really easy to die or wipe the raid. Each set will be broken after a countdown (3 -2 -1 - break). They need to be broken at exactly the right time, not early and not late so what you do if you have shackles is run close to the edge and wait for the command, then immediately break. Bigwigs and DBM both have a radar for this. Everyone else just get out from them as fast as you can. This always needs to be fast because the next ability will be coming in and there's no time to wait. The 3rd set of Shackles is special; after the 2nd arrows are done the raid (except doomfire soakers) stacks on the boss. Once shackles spawn we pop roar and or take the warlock portal out; the shackles are broken on countdown and then you have 2-3 seconds to run back to the boss before next arrows. As soon as the arrows start you stop whether you're in position or not. If you're a melee this can mean you can't dps; so be it.

Note that in P2 adds are always prio, especially Overfiends who die in seconds if all rdps swap to them but Deathcallers need to go down fast as well.

P3
Once he starts phasing kill off the remaining adds. We really don't want to phase with a Deathcaller / Overfiend up and may have to even stop dps on boss for a moment to make sure this doesn't happen. As soon as we drop down the first Dark Conduits will come; ranged and healers spread along the edges. Once the conduits are done, go to your raid marker to be ready for Mark of the Legion.

Now, Mark of the Legion is a retard check same as the seeds on Zakuun and failing with it will mean you wipe us. What happens is each group has a world marker where you're meant to soak, so for example Group 3 is on Star. However 4 people will get debuffed with the Mark, Bigwigs will set a marker on their heads and those 4 must immediately run to the corresponding world marker, stand a bit in front of it (with the soak group behind you) and make sure your back is towards the room so as to not get knocked out. Star will be the first to blow up and if you've not been paying attention to where you're standing you may not make it there on time; when Marks is coming you *always* need to make sure you're close enough to make it. Do keep in mind that when soaking a Mark you get a debuff that increases damage taken from Marks which means if you try to run back (to melee) too quickly and get hit by another group's one you will die.

We will then rotate between different abilities in P3; each Void Star is assigned to one person to slow and *everyone* swaps to them, Infernals are gripped and kited by DK's and hunters with everyone burning them down asap (remember to move out of their spawning circles) and Source of Chaos needs to be nuked down asap unless we're sacrificing the tank (the 3rd one). We will get 4 waves of Infernals, 3 - 3 - 4 - 4.

Seething Corruption looks scary but is easy. The dance has 4 patterns and will always be called out as "safe" or "not safe" at the start. "Safe" means there's always clear space at melee on either side, "not safe" means that the last pattern requires everyone except the active tank to run to the back middle or back left side of the room, which requires you to be quick. We will have roars for this. ("Safe" always has a clear space at front left at the start so it's easy to recognize.)

Perhaps the trickiest part of P3 is after the second Seething Corruption as Dark Conduits come right when it ends and the raid tends to be stacked. To avoid a wipe any ranged and healers with immunities need to run out to edges in the Seething Corruption while the rest try to spread out in the available space as best you can and be really quick to move away from any spawning Conduits. Conduits is also a retard test, fail it = wipe the raid.

[Deleted]

Phase one being 100-70% correct? Not 85%. I don't understand how we are struggling so much when we surpassed the dps requirement to get only 3 doomlords on Manno....

So just to confirm the goal is lust on pull, don't hold dps, and get him from 100 to 70% before 2nd/3rd doom fire? That seems nuts haha. Do you ignore the tank add and burn boss only?

I am pretty sure that 3 Doomlords in P1 was the goal before item upgrades. With fully upgraded gear the damage should be sufficient to push him after 2 doomlords (with the first being exploded by the ring).

Considering this, maybe you should either
a) run with 4 healers, 3 doomfires
b) 4 healers, 2 doomfires and lust at the beginning until you get far enough into the last phase and until you manage to push more damage in P1

Other things you should look out for:

1) First ring should explode only on archi by having it explode after the first doomfire spirit and before the first deathcaller is spawned. To get the timing right, the ring might have to be popped right before the pull or even a bit earlier.
2) Passive cleave on first doomfire spirit and first deathcaller, tanks can mitigate deathcaller damage completely with the buff.
3) check up on what people are doing with their classes. Some of you do very respectable damage, but e.g. rogue and elemental shaman are pretty much inacceptable (but it is probably gear related as well):
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...734&target=117
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...se=1&target=98 (Note: We push directly after 2nd Doomfire, sometimes even during - which sucks. A bit lower should be more than sufficient to push before 3rd doomfire)

[Skozen]

We've been running a burn strat with 3 healers and lust at the start to get only 1 doomfire. With good DPS it makes the first phase really easy. Our offtank handles the fires. Second phase we stop dps at 57% since that's when second wrought chaos is going off for us and then we put on the gas to burn him down before we get a fourth doomlord. Then it's just dealing with p3 without lust.

[Adramelch]

Something that hasn't be mentioned. You can have the Warrior solotank the boss for the first 35-40 seconds and have the Bear go wild with HotW and dps trinkets. Played correctly that's a rather nice boost in damage with little to no downsides (bears should be able to quite easily survive everything in the fight without needing tanking trinkets, with externals for the deathcallers).

Another thing that you asked and I don't know if it's answered, but for the 1 doomfire strat, we have the healer soaking the first allure (in p1) so it's less complicated for the tanks, and then the tanks rotate on soaking in p2.

Additionally, it's worth noting that target switching on the first doomfire that goes down fast is a delicate matter and it can make or break your dps. The doomfires spawn at the very least 10 patches of fire, regardless of how fast they are killed, so basically, as long as you kill them before the 10 second mark, it doesn't matter if it was at 9 or at 4. So it's worth taking the time and a couple of tries, to see how many of your dpsers need to swap to it, and the rest stay on the boss. Typically, the starfall from your two boomkins, the passive cleave of your dks, the chimaera shots and the rogue's Soul Cap, should be able to take care of it, so almost nobody needs to hard-switch to it. Do your fine-tuning there and it'll help a bit.

In terms of the infernals in last phase, boomkins can fucking obliterate them if they use cooldowns. On average I do about 3m damage in the wave I use CDs - for reference the infernals have about 3m health each, so basically I'm doing 1/4 of the damage needed, and that's on the 3rd wave where they basically overlap with the dance, so I don't get optimal damage. Mind you, using 3mins at the third infernals (depending on your dps), might mean you'll be skipping a full set of CDs, so check if it's worth the trade off.

[Broccoliz]

We spent another 2 hours on Archimonde and learned a bit more but are still struggling with some things. Here are our new logs (best pull 59% after 40 pulls, not sure if that is good or an indication we are horrible haha!):

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GpMVF1JT8wdx4mX6

Any pull with three healers we tried the "burn boss before 2nd doomfire" strat with hero at start. We managed to accomplish that once. I'm not sure if it is our comp or what is happening but we are just unable to single target burn him down fast enough.

We then swapped to four healers when that wasn't working consistently for us. If we don't hero on pull, we get 3 doomfires (got a third right before phase). If we do hero on pull, we only get two doomfires. At this point I don't think 3 doomfires is at all acceptable so we stuck with hero on pull to get only 2 doomfires and avoid the second shadowfel burst.

I think our biggest problem (besides lacking the single target burst needed to do this fight in easy mode) is we don't have a set dance routine for what is happening yet. We started getting one at the end of raid (raid was pretty much just experimenting to see what strat would work for our team).

Here is the dance I believe we will follow....

1) Start fight stacked in order to soak golden orb together (doomfire fixate get out asap and run towards entrance).
2) Get golden orb, spread for shadowfel (happens about 8 seconds after golden orb for us)
3) Regroup and repeat - 2nd doomfire target get out - allure soakers watch allure and return to group when able, picking up a golden orb on their way to soak/drop fire)
4) Phase - kill deathcaller
5) Wrought Chaos I think we handled relatively well actually... we loose spread around boss and YOLO it.
6) First chains, we countdown run to other side of room (entrance) 3-2-1 break (allure has to be soaked during this) and then spread for next wrought chaos

That is about as far as we got. Does that dance sound reasonable or is there another step you suggest?

I'm honestly not sure why we are struggling so much - what is a normal expectation for progressing on this boss, are we making a good pace through it or should we be seeing more progress / less struggle with p1 ... would appreciate any feedback and help focusing in on what needs to be fixed.

Thank you all!

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, one last problem that also resulted in some wipes. The second doomfire is a struggle to get down in 15 stacks and we got over that a few times (auto wipe essentially). I'm not sure if it's our positioning effing is or what - people are trying to push it hard and know it is a priority. Anyone else experience this and have a fix?

[Silfury]

0 rogues and 2 arc mages - you are going to have a very hard time getting 1 doomfire with a hero without at least one rogue with the 2 mages

few things i am noticing -first - why does the person with the doomfire have to run out to the middle ???? just stand still - have your soaker stand infront of the group and be done with it

2nd if you are using the hero strat in p1 it has to be done off the bat you have lost about 5 seconds worth of pot usage if the hero is cast 7 seconds in

3rd - you have a bear tank - he should be in dps gear for this fight as the warrior can basically solo tank this fight and thats your extra dps if he specs into HOTW

[Broccoliz]

0 rogues and 2 arc mages - you are going to have a very hard time getting 1 doomfire with a hero without at least one rogue with the 2 mages

few things i am noticing -first - why does the person with the doomfire have to run out to the middle ???? just stand still - have your soaker stand infront of the group and be done with it

2nd if you are using the hero strat in p1 it has to be done off the bat you have lost about 5 seconds worth of pot usage if the hero is cast 7 seconds in

3rd - you have a bear tank - he should be in dps gear for this fight as the warrior can basically solo tank this fight and thats your extra dps if he specs into HOTW

We normally have a rogue but he had a planned absence last night.

You are the first person to ever mention the soaker standing on the doomfire and taking stacks right off the bat though it would work (he would have to resoak before the first allure though). If he stands on top of the doomfire will it prevent the line from existing at all or does he need to move to "follow" it?

As for hero being cast late, likely a derp dps moment that pull. The plan is to hero and ring on pull (ring a second before).

- - - Updated - - -

Another problem we were having when trying to burn was the doomfire dying before ring explosion. We tried having three hunters and 2 Mages focus it / three hunters two boomkins, and neither way got it down fast enough without sacrificing too much damage on the boss. Should we just ignore it and let ring explosion hit it too? The one time we did phase in time the ring was split.

[WarcraftMages]

The ring does not do regular AOE damage. It splits. So if it hits another target, the intended target gets lower damage and if it overkills it's a loss.

PS. I watched old guides that talk about 3 or 4 doomfire spirits on p1 so I wonder if it's optimal aiming for lower than 2 on current progression.

[Silfury]

the person soaking just has to be infront of the range camp so it hits that person first

in regards to the doomfire - arcane mages crystal on said doomfire? where is it

[Broccoliz]

The ring does not do regular AOE damage. It splits. So if it hits another target, the intended target gets lower damage and if it overkills it's a loss.

PS. I watched old guides that talk about 3 or 4 doomfire spirits on p1 so I wonder if it's optimal aiming for lower than 2 on current progression.

Yes I know how the ring works that is why I was asking. If we have 5 dps tunneling into doomfire we didn't get enough damage on the boss to phase in time. When we let the ring split and focused all on boss, we killed it in time before second doomfire. I know it seems backwards which is why I was asking - the trade off might work for our comp.

- - - Updated - - -

the person soaking just has to be infront of the range camp so it hits that person first

in regards to the doomfire - arcane mages crystal on said doomfire? where is it

We were experimenting - the Mages were only on it 2-3 pulls. Did you look at the right pull? If so I will have a talk with them.

For the fire soak I am asking if the line extends beyond where the soaker is will the range stack get hit or will the line never grow out because the soaker hits it. If it hits the soaker and keeps growing it will eventually hit the range.

[WarcraftMages]

Yes I know how the ring works that is why I was asking. If we have 5 dps tunneling into doomfire we didn't get enough damage on the boss to phase in time. When we let the ring split and focused all on boss, we killed it in time before second doomfire. I know it seems backwards which is why I was asking - the trade off might work for our comp.

They lose a lot of DPS on switching. Tell those that lose DPS for switching to never switch. Those that can cleave without loss should cleave.