4th spec

[Obelisk Kai]

'Rock' magic would fall under shamanism, i imagine its a rather primitive form of magic, and thats something shamans have been asking as their 4th spec, often called earthwarden, which i think would make some more sense considering shamans already can wield shields

Here is my list of potential 4th specs:
Mage: either battlemage (melee tank/dps, either is fine for me) or restoration (using time, fire (think red dragonflight) and frost magic to undo, restore and prevent damage)
Warlock: Pet focused tanking spec (Tanking items are no longer tied to armor classes)
Priest: Inquisitor holy DPS spec, using fire and holy magic (BURN THE HERETIC!)

Monk: dont care, but screw it, a ranged archer spec (need more archers!) with chinesey names for everything (jade arrow, flying monkey dancing crane shot, mystical flying palm of 10 thousand thunders or whatever) or another weapon focused melee dps spec (monks are also masters of weapons, not just bare hands)
Druid: lol, already got one
Rogue: ranged archer spec, personally think assassination should have been reworked into it this expansion, in which case id suggest a dodge focused tanking spec, but id be happy with just a ranged spec added, would make for fun gameplay imo.

Shaman: earthwarden (not married to the name) earth focused tanking spec with mace and shield
Hunter: pet tanking spec

Warrior: gladiator, already had it, easy fit OR ranged axe thrower spec (this i think is more of a stretch, but id personally love an axe thrower spec)
Paladin: sword and board crusader spec, melee dps using shield and single hander
Death Knight: Ranged DPS necromancer spec (though unholy is currently cannibalizing the hell out of that, and im not even complaining!)


As for future classes
Tinker: (regular class)
Melee tank spec with shield mace and mechanical augments (demon hunters get tons of flashy shit, we can have a mecha arm easily at this point
Ranged dps spec using guns, rockets, gnades and turrets n shit
Healing Apothecary spec, using potions, healing drone and other stuff
Melee dps spec with weapon, shield and mecha arms to punch stuff, maybe a drill or something badass, basically a few parts short of a goblin shredder
(tinker is really frikkin easy though TBH)

Dragonsworn: (hero class with dragon wings and scales and shit)
Dragoon Melee dps spec (with jumping abilities and spells based on dragonflights)
Healing class using red, bronze, emerald and obsidian dragonflight magic (though this is basically what the proposed mage healer spec is, so fuck it they can have battle mage)
Melee Tanking spec, with dragon scales, obsidian earth magic and all that dragony stuff
ranged spec?

Actually, just thinking of this, what if hero classes just dont get bonus stuff, they are hero classes, they come from specific areas and are tied to specific points in lore, demon hunters have a solid theme and dont need different sets of skills, death knights are what they are, they received their powers from arthas, they work as it is, and dragonsworn are cool with just 3 specs (even though they arent confirmed or anything and are just on my personal wishlist, and a ranged spec using red, green and blue magic isnt much of a stretch)

Guys this discussion is now seriously derailing into something that should be in general.

[Yamuri]

Guys this discussion is now seriously derailing into something that should be in general.

Then just for the sake of getting the train back on track, I fully invest my feelings into Blizzard adding a telekinetic spec as a 4th for mages.

[bloodmoth13]

optional suggestions for some of those classes

mage: spiritmender role healer

monk: mistcaller role spellcasting focused on using the mist and jade fire/ele

shaman: stormcaller = 2 hand dps melee spec focused on burst and mastery of thunder strikes.

death knight: reaver 2 hand focused melee dps without dots and minions but heavy focus on hard hits and burst dmg

paladin: sentidel= dw dps wielders of light

hunter: old survival spec reborn and named stalker.

Warlock: voidbringer a tank spec focused on becoming one with the void (giving you a humanoid voidlike form to fight in.

just my thoughts on your already intresting suggestions

Mages shouldnt have anything to do with spirits imo, that kind of belongs to warlocks, priests, paladins and shaman, its more a religious sort of thing really

i really dont like the idea of a monk magic spec, i mean it could totally exist as they are really just a form of shaman, but i think they have more potential as a physical dps class, and monk archery or weapon class i think could be really cool (even if they were all house of flying daggers, and throwing daggers)

Shamans have been asking for a tank spec since forever, back in the days it was kind of always hinted at, rockbiter used to increase threat generation, they could use shields and in some cases they could actually tank some stuff (though not as well as real tanks), though 2h enhance has a big enough fan base to warrant that as a contender, i think it could easily just become an option for enhance shamans, maybe through talents or something. So i could see 2hander being a subspec of enhance, but a new spec would likely just force it to steal from current enhance. Also, there is an issue of itemization, back in the days stats were a complete mess, now they are much better tailored, but anyway, the items that 2h enhance used dont exist anymore, there are no agi 2 handers that arent staffs or polarms, neither or which suit what a 2h shaman wants, so unless they get some weird passive that turns strength into agi it would be rather awkward (though im not opposed to blizz removing primary stats of melee weapons and just having either spell power OR attack power)

Not sure why, but i really just dont want to see paladins ever dual wield. iconically they are either with a shield or a big 2 hander, its not to say the lore cant be expanded on, but i think there is definitely a niche for sword and board melee dps specs that use shields, and its currently an unfulfilled fantasy that is something that this game should support. we already have a number of dual wielders in this game, not to say we shouldnt have more, but we dont require more, and i dont think that it really fits with the paladin fantasy
So its definitely possible, if blizz wanted to explore the lore in that direction, but sword and shield paladins are more iconic and a sword and board dps spec (or 2/3) is alot more unique than another duel wield spec

Out of curiousity, what was old survival? the old old melee version that is to be reborn in legion? or the current soon to be old one that is ranged and is to be canibalized by BM/MM in legion? The new survival spec is focused on melee and traps and its abilities are all named after the original ones it had in vanilla (mongoose strike, raptor strike etc)

As for warlocks, blizz kind of screwed themselves into a corner with their lore and gave a bunch of the void lore to shadow priests, so im not really sure who is entitled to void lore at this point, or whether the void is connected more with the legion or old gods, besides, id love to see both a hunter AND warlock tank spec introduced at the same time, so that they can borrow some of the same base mechanics to make the whole pet tank thing work (along with a pet ai rework), otherwise if its just a single spec they wouldnt bother developing the tech to properly support pet tanks

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Then just for the sake of getting the train back on track, I fully invest my feelings into Blizzard adding a telekinetic spec as a 4th for mages.

Its not derailing, the topic is about a 4th mage spec, without context you cant make a propper decision, and the context is whether all classes will get a 4th spec, and within this context we need to respect the likely candidates other classes will get with their 4th specs and potential for new classes and the lore behind what the proposed new spec would entail, specifically time magic that happens to be tied to the bronze dragonflight and perhaps the separation of arcane and time magic or rather whether mages should hold domain over time magic at all, not to mention what the potential landscape would be of a post 4th spec environment, if all other pure dps specs get either a tank of healing spec, then does that affect whether mages should be pure dps still or whether they will be required to get a tank/heal spec?

so this discussion is all still relevant to the topic

[ComputerNerd]

No.
Queue times have nothing to do with availability of the tank roles, as the increased number with recent classes has proven.
It is all about the willingness to play those roles in random content.
If you look at guild recruitments, there is a huge difference in the roles they are demanding compared to the "shortages" in queued content.
Tanks and healers are simply unrewarding roles to play in queued content due to how they are treated.

DPS seem to have free reign to act like they please, and if it the tank or healers fault if they don't "fix" the mistakes of a DPS - instead of the DPS being responsible for their own behaviour.

A solution looking for a problem.
And you found a problem that is doing nothing to solve, as it has an entirely different cause.

[Yamuri]

so this discussion is all still relevant to the topic

Of course except the other classes speculating 4th specs for them.

I'm a heavy believer that classes should always follow the lore (which sometimes it doesn't). Hunters don't get a 4th spec, I think their pets would be a more viable tank than mages. None of the other classes that can't heal are viable really, warlock may be the most viable since they have soul magic. So mages in my opinion have no room for a healing or tanking spec. If anything it would just be another DPS spec.

[derpkitteh]

Blood mage like kael thas? or as in blood magic?

Kael was a fire mage, and fire mages have been kinda taking that, though warlocks took a few of the blood mages toys. it wouldnt take much to turn a fire mage into a kaelthas blood mage, a glyph or two would do it, heck in legion we get his sword, that i have never seen him use but its there, also some pheonix abilities and stuff

If you mean blood magic, using rituals and stuff, i think that would tie in better to either warlocks or shadow priests, expecially considering shadow priests already have vampiric abilities

yeah, not the fire mages, i'm talking legit blood magic, like the two belves and the gnome in blasted lands, and seemingly astalor bloodsworn, since he's channeling blood into the golems the blood elves have control of now.

it does seem more warlocky, but it also does seem to be a more legit form of magic use than fel magic, like something mages would look into.

[atredies]

Rather than adding new classes and races they should add a new spec for every class in the expansion after Legion.

[bloodmoth13]

Of course except the other classes speculating 4th specs for them.

I'm a heavy believer that classes should always follow the lore (which sometimes it doesn't). Hunters don't get a 4th spec, I think their pets would be a more viable tank than mages. None of the other classes that can't heal are viable really, warlock may be the most viable since they have soul magic. So mages in my opinion have no room for a healing or tanking spec. If anything it would just be another DPS spec.

Id actually be interested in a warlock blood healing spec

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yeah, not the fire mages, i'm talking legit blood magic, like the two belves and the gnome in blasted lands, and seemingly astalor bloodsworn, since he's channeling blood into the golems the blood elves have control of now.

it does seem more warlocky, but it also does seem to be a more legit form of magic use than fel magic, like something mages would look into.

Mages would research it, for sure, but i doubt it would be practiced, i get the impression that there are forbidden forms of magic for mages and blood magic would fall into that, warlocks on the other hand already specialize in forbidden magic so i think they would suit that

[stariv]

I'm all for battle Mage spec. I like healer Mage idea, but i can't think of anything that would fit

[Deleted]

I kind of have to agree with this a little, the only real time abilities mages have came in cata when they got warp time and that one really awkward ability, so i wouldnt even mind if they lost their time abilities and it got moved to a new class, unless you consider slow to be a time based ability? i may be missing something there though, but id be happy for magic to be its own thing (its what the blue dragonflight preside over)

Of course, time magic isnt something you can just learn, i imagine it should be tied to the bronze dragonflight, in which case a good case for said spec would be dragonsworn, who use powers from all the dragonflights (with talents specializing on specific ones?), in which case a healer spec using bronze time magic, ruby fire healing magic and emerald dreamish stuff would make sense

If there is another mage spec introduced, rather than adding another school of magic id much MUCH rather they have a spec that utilizes all 3 magic schools (frost fire arcane), and while i think all classes should be able to fulfill 2 roles minimum, i dont think its important enough to just slap on another school of magic onto mages, and as far as arcane being loosely enough defined that you could retcon it to include time magic, it would be incredibly stupid considering the bronze and blue dragonflights preside over time and arcane as though they are separate realms.

As cool as the proposed healing spec would be, i think a much better position for it would be on the kit of a dragonsworn, if bliz ever chooses to add such a class, as they already have the rights to time magic (bronze dragonflight) and a form of healing fire magic (ruby dragonflight) and natural healing emerald magic etc, and battlemage is still a really cool concept that mages could fulfill really well considering quite a few of their abilities would be really cool in melee range (blink and frost nova for example)

But it IS something you can just learn like any other kind of magic, it's just that in lore the Bronze Dragonflight would hammer down anyone trying to mess with time. At least that's what Zooti Fizzlefury tells us about it.

Sadly there wouldn't be much if anything. I hated leveling my priest in vanilla solo holy, it was pretty brutal. I agree, there should be a bit more lenience with holy. Like not being in a group gives your healing spells a damaging effect.

I leveled my priest in vanilla by joining pugs looking for a healer, that may be easier today but you still can't do shit alone in holyspec.

I'm all for battle Mage spec. I like healer Mage idea, but i can't think of anything that would fit

You can't think of anything that would fit? How come? Chromie heals with time magic during the garrison campaign.

[Orrin]

After Cataclysm homogenization 3 pure classes got 3 identical specs each: Rogues, Hunters and Mages. In Legion Hunter and Rogue(?) were dehomogenized, so I'm waiting for Mages turn before adding any other spec.

[WarcraftMages]

Personal history is not a good reason to stick a class. If you don't like DPSing anymore explore other classes. No reason to homogenize the whole game into the same hybrid class in order to accommodate sticking to a class.

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Rather than adding new classes and races they should add a new spec for every class in the expansion after Legion.

It won't happen unless it's about new specs that remain on the same role. There will be revolts in various classes from people that don't want to play a role their class didn't play because they picked that class in order to not play that role. The reason melee hunters are more accepted is that they were melee in vanilla and their class culture accepts melee gameplay more easily.

[Magictricks]

A very easy way of getting round the problem you are talking about is to have a cross class spec.

It would mean all pure classes would be able to cross class in to a healer of the same armour type, Mage/lock to priest, rogue to druid or monk, hunter to shaman.

All it would do is make you a holy priest, with all the priest skills/talents but you would lose all of your mage skills/talents.
Not very strong on the class fantasy but it would help with variety .

[WarcraftMages]

^They do not have that much a problem of managing the development of it (so to require sharing specs) but it's more about what people would like to see in the game. The established classes have people that picked them for the pure nature of them in certain aspects. Some ranged classes only range DPS or DPS, Priests mainly heal in very custom ways, Rogues only melee DPS.

If anything, what the game needs is more special tanking specs on the same tanking class. No tank anymore can specialize in tanking in more than 1 spec. Death Knights were doing it in WotLK but it was hard to manage the sharing of spells with DPS specs.

[Zelendria]

In every RPG I've ever played I always went with the Mage/Caster archetype. Not once did I pick it with the expectation to heal with it.
Whether it can fit in lore or not IMO doesn't matter. To me Mages blow shit up and are slippery. They don't heal or stand there getting beat on

[Obelisk Kai]

In every RPG I've ever played I always went with the Mage/Caster archetype. Not once did I pick it with the expectation to heal with it.
Whether it can fit in lore or not IMO doesn't matter. To me Mages blow shit up and are slippery. They don't heal or stand there getting beat on

Yet consider this. As Blizzard continues pruning abilities left right and center they are eventually going to reach a point where they can prune no more.

They could add more abilities, but they've clearly come to the decision that fewer buttons per class, and as many as possible locked behind a specialization wall, is the way to go.

So what next? After going to all this bother of pruning to the bone...and with Legion we have reached 'bone' in terms of reducing button bloat...will they then turn around and start expanding the classes's abilities again?

There is only so much they can do from retiring abilities and bringing in new ones because that always involves some sort of painful loss.

How will they get us excited about our existing characters next time?

Maybe if the goal is fewer buttons per spec, they can instead compensate by offering classes more specs to choose from?

Brand new specs ARE possible (if, as I said earlier, hideous unlikely).

Cross classing is also a possible option.

Just don't be surprised if something on this front happens at some point, especially since adding new abilities to existing specs is much much more difficult than it was.

[WarcraftMages]

Just don't be surprised if something on this front happens

Blizzard are known to reverse what they do. This expansion is about spec identity. Next might be about multiple specs.

[Obelisk Kai]

Blizzard are known to reverse what they do. This expansion is about spec identity. Next might be about multiple specs.

But it remains only a hypothesis right now, a possible path. Best to assume it will never happen and be pleasantly surprised if it does.

[Raji]

I had a theory for fire spec. Goes completely against Blizz's desire for mages to be glass cannons with no healing, but whatever.


I'd like to see them become a unique spec.

I'd like to see a decent chunk of their damage come from casting reflective damage on the tank. I.E. thorns style. This would be a maintenance buff moved about to whoevers getting hit. This would be castable on yourself too, for soloing purposes.

From there they'd have a number of burn style dots. Stacking these dots would be key to their casted damage.

They'd have an explosion ability that would consume all dots to do 150% of whatever damage was left in the dots.

They'd also summon 1-5 fire orbs. These fire orbs would be ground target (kind of like placing a totem) and come in 3 forms. One would provide a spell damage buff to players in surrounding areas. The second would channel a dot on the target of your (insert dot here), which would have interesting mechanics with consuming the dots. The third would pulse AoE damage. These orbs would go from 100% strength at 1 orb to 20% strength with 5 out.

From there you have 2 interactions with the orbs. One, you could detonate them to provide an effect based on the orb. (ST would do a nuke to its target, AoE would do a big AoE nuke, and the SP buff would provide a different buff--maybe crit for 20s).. The second interaction would be to consume them to heal you. The effect of the detonation would depend on the relative strength of the orbs (as you remember, if affected by how many you have out). The heal would be static per orb, meaning you get a bigger heal the more orbs you have out.

Needs a little more fleshing out, but yeah, thats what I have. Could work for frost or arcane too, honestly. Though I see it mostly as fire.

[WarcraftMages]

Fire has been already killed and resurrected. It's why we get months of testing on it while the other 2 will just be given later. The spec is completely different.

I'd like to see Arcane earlier too though. Not having a reliance on high mastery is something interesting to see how it plays out.

Frost appears almost identical.