Over 1000 guilds have killed mythic Archimonde

[oplawlz]

I agree with the OP's interpretation, which has very little to do with the rest of the thread, predictably. 20 man fixed mythic is a solid format which has not choked out people who are really equipped to complete a raid on the highest difficulty.

[Bigbazz]

I don't see your characters posted, I don't see anything but some guy posting random shit when my reply was aimed at people derailing a thread over who's downed a boss or not. You're barking at a guy who plays the game a few hours a week for the last two expansions, and who's probably raided in games when you were still sucking on your momma's breasts. You have no clue what the topic was about in the first place, and you are looking like a fool.

I can't believe you would resort to such childish insults, given that you've been raiding in MMO's since the 1980s.

Nobody was derailling the thread, people were talking about the difficulty of the boss in question, the effect of the Legendary ring and ilvl upgrades.. Which has a great deal to do with success rates on the boss and the massive influx of new guilds killing it in recent weeks. It's not really an indication of the success (or lack of) of Mythic 20man raiding because it's not the raiding scene that has suffered most of the losses in WOD.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Bigbazz/simple

You're welcome.

[Khorm]

That is your whacked out definition not mine. Considering not even 1000 guilds US/EU have even downed the boss I think people downing it in the next couple months will be 'good' or even 'great' guilds. Elite/World first type guilds? Of course not. But to not call guilds 'good' that can even down the boss a couple months from now, give me a fucking break.

You can call yourself a fairy as well, you probably do, but that doesn't change what is considered the norm.

[dacoolist]

I can't believe you would resort to such childish insults, given that you've been raiding in MMO's since the 1980s.

Nobody was derailling the thread, people were talking about the difficulty of the boss in question, the effect of the Legendary ring and ilvl upgrades.. Which has a great deal to do with success rates on the boss and the massive influx of new guilds killing it in recent weeks. It's not really an indication of the success (or lack of) of Mythic 20man raiding because it's not the raiding scene that has suffered most of the losses in WOD.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Bigbazz/simple

You're welcome.

Surprised you posted your armory. Bigup Bigb

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You can call yourself a fairy as well, you probably do, but that doesn't change what is considered the norm.

From the peanut gallery - I always figured if someone killed the end boss before the next expansion on the hardest difficulty, I always considered them at least good. Obviously it's all depending on how someone see's good right? I'm a challenger/solider in casual pvp. I consider myself good because I can beat 65% of rated pvpers. When it comes to elite, I consider that top few percent in pvp. World Ranking in pvp would be Glad/R1 etc. For pve, I figure that being in the top 35% by expansions end nets a good status, but then again, this is coming from me right?

[Kyanion]

You can call yourself a fairy as well, you probably do, but that doesn't change what is considered the norm.

Lol that was a really weak attempt at an insult. It does not matter what the 'norm' is in your eyes, you do not speak for anyone but yourself. There is no hard and fast rule that says "Unless you are top 500 World you are shit, period." So run along and play, I'm done with you.

[Mokuna]

Did you even look at data before the ilvl upgrade and everyone got a maxed ring ? I'm pretty sure hfc and mythic archimonde before that were one of the hardest content ever

The ring upgrade and the 10 ilvl are probably the heaviest nerf you've ever seen to a raid when it was current, and now a lot of people are clearing it, it's both logical and intended, the raid is nearly 8 months old, that nerf was needed for most players to kill it, and you can't really argue it's too easy now when guilds which killed archimonde are still a vast minority

Gorefiend, Xhul'horac and Mannoroth destroyed guilds by themselves, Archimonde required coding to deal with mechanics, the bosses were(and still are to some extent) extremely unforgiving, calling it easy and then bringing the format again (sigh) is just being silly and ignorant.

Also a lot players quit, but how many of them were top raiders? If something has been well designed in Wod it's the high end raiding, and I really doubt there were a lot of top raiders stopping because of wod, the content drought hurt pvpers and casual way more than top pve players.

[WarcraftMages]

The ring upgrade and the 10 ilvl are probably the heaviest nerf you've ever seen to a raid when it was current

The prepatch made hard mode Siege of Orgrimmar on par with normal difficulty.

[Alvito]

Thats because mythic hfc is slightly easier than mythic SoO

Being able to do them cross server surely helps guilds get over the hump too. On some higher population servers mythic raiding is alive and well. We still have entire servers without a single mythic HFC kill though, this wasnt the case this deep into SoO. Smaller servers are just shit out of luck when it comes to fielding 20 man raids in mythic content. Sure they can pug in people from other servers now but that isn't a long term fix. You are also not going to get anybody to pay to go to a dead server to join some low end potential mythic raid.

[Icuren]

The prepatch made hard mode Siege of Orgrimmar on par with normal difficulty.

While the rewards were still intact, I honestly would count a prepatch making things not "current"

[Deja Thoris]

Another hole to poke in the stats is it only looks at completion, not at participation which is what the OP made a snipe at. Mythic isn't only about the 13/13 guilds.

Also Dacoolist. You are one angry forum nerd. I don't even know what you are clenching your teeth at half the time.

[Detritivores]

As others have stated, HfC probably started out harder, but it is more heavily nerfed due to the rings at this stage than SoO was.

The snipe at teams that were crushed by the raid format is unwarranted. It's a very real issue on many small-medium realms. Many nights were lost to the roster boss prior to cross-realm opening. Creating a raid format where you have to either use a paid service to transfer to big realms or wait until content is no longer relevant to draw folks in from off server, is for many reasons, suboptimal to the crowd that previously putzed around in heroic 10 man.

This is straying a little off topic, but I have a theory that the majority of uppity current mythic raiders who think this is the pinnacle of hardcore pve content raided 25 heroic primarily in the past. Because 10 was always tuned harder and left little to no room to carry anyone, similar to current mythic. Compared to old 25, yes mythic feels more challenging and glorious and e-peen engorging. Compared to old 10, it feels about the same, except significantly more annoying to manage for guild leaders and with the undesirable side effect of destroying smaller realm communities. These are legit grievances with the format, regardless of how "successful" it is in terms of stats, it has done significant harm to huge swaths of this game by annihilating smaller servers, which I would venture did not help the overall sub numbers.

[Keashaa]

You just can't compare the two end-of-expansion raids because there are so many differences. So who cares?

[Lylandra]

we're still racing towards Mannoroth & Archimonde server first on our realm

Having only a small player base sucks in this regard and on our realm not much has changed since SoO. On alliance side. We had 3-5 "deep heroic" (those who were at leat attempting or had killed Blackfuse) guilds who did 10H and no 25H one. Our "best" 25N guild took many months to even see Garrosh, as they are super casual. Now we have 2 25M guilds who stand before Mannoroth and are on the verge of downing him. Horde has been thinned out since SoO though and there is only one guild at 9/13 left.

Both Alliance guilds have been heavily recruiting cross-realm since the start of Warlords and our group even merged with another guild to keep up numbers.

But to be honest, on our realms, the death of raiding guilds started after Cataclysm. And we really prospered during WotLK.

[pkm]

Buddy, if you haven't cleared it yet then you're the type of person who needs the ring.

Buddy, you're Implying everyones started raiding early in the tier.

[Deleted]

The gear treadmill is much steeper than in SoO. Once you get your mythic gear valor-upgraded, some warforged sockets, some really good mythic trinkets and the orange ring towards the ilvl cap, your power grows exponentially.

Currently a mythic-level geared character is capable of performing 3-4 times more dps than 700 ilvl character. Yes, 700 ilvl, not even fresh ding. Fresh ding is about 600.

The power creep in MOP was big, but nowhere near this big. Once you were geared in Normal mode you pulled about 250k dps, heroic upgraded gear made that 350-400k. Here at normal raiding you pull 30k, at mythic raiding you pull 100k+.

Also, different guild structure. Bigger guilds were doing FAR better in high-end progression in MOP. The percentage of 25-man guilds clearing the raid was way, way higher than percenage of 10-man guilds. Currently you can only do 20-man mythic mode, so you pretty much have to have a big guild in order to do this content.

Also, the legendary cloak was available since day 1 of SOO and didn't grown in power overtime apart from small +8ilvl buff somewhere around mid-way through it (valor patch). Currently HFC is about as challenging as you would expect an 8 month old raid instance to be. THose final content patches always drag on for way too long time, allowing many people to clear the raid.

If you compare a final patch tier (ICC, DS, SOO, HFC) versus any other tier, the diffrence in # of guilds clearing it is breathtaking. Look how many guilds downed Mythic BH before 6.2. They didn't had the luxury of contant lasting for a year.

[Deleted]

I think people are forgetting the sub count must be down to what 2-3m by now?

The valor nerf probably stopped half the mythic raiding guilds from disbanding already since replacing leaving players with an ever decreasing recruitment pool is proving to be a difficult scenario for most. So to say 1000+ guilds have achieved 13/13M in a brand new 20 man format is great.

The valor nerf was a neccesary evil to keep things ticking over. Unless you killed the boss in a world #100 guild then you already had maxed rings while progressing Archimonde.

[Deleted]

but raiding (especially mythic raiding) is dead! The 20 man format has killed mythic raiding! We must petition Blizzard to fix this right now!

Does your own numbers not prove you are wrong?...

I am glad they made it a 20-man only mode. Surely some 10-man guilds died in the process, which is unfortunate. But then again, several 25-man guilds also died when they made 10- and 25-man the same in Cataclysm.

Edit:

Because 10 was always tuned harder and left little to no room to carry anyone,

No it wasen't. The difficulty varied. Sometimes the 10-man version was hardest (Hagara in DS as an example) and sometimes it was the 25-man version (Ragnaros in Firelands). I am aware I brought up examples from Cataclysm, but I raided very little in MoP (especially 10-man so have no opinion about that).

[Raiju]

No, a joke would be the pre-expansion patch that let people walk up and bitchslap Garrosh at the end of SoO using new talents/abilities. Yes the ilevel boost and 795 rings are making HFC easier but it is not a 'joke' as not even 1000 US/EU guilds have managed to clear the damn raid.

You have to use appropriate numbers - with less players there's also less mythic raiders. With the 20man mythic some 10man 'mythic' never bothered. The lower difficult relative to garrosh pre-patch helps mask this, but a big reason behind people wanting to kill mythic archimonde not having it yet are the recruitments before him.

[Bryntrollian]

Lol, I am a raider, but you don't see me bitching about being a casual raider - being more core expansions back, and taking it easy after cata do you? Sounds like you're another hater coming in trying to white knight a post blaming someone else for other peoples short comings. You don't know me, and you don't know anything about this post past my reply.

You're not a raider, I have pug alts more progressed than you.

[Kyanion]

You have to use appropriate numbers - with less players there's also less mythic raiders. With the 20man mythic some 10man 'mythic' never bothered. The lower difficult relative to garrosh pre-patch helps mask this, but a big reason behind people wanting to kill mythic archimonde not having it yet are the recruitments before him.

I wasn't talking about 10v25 or 10v20 stuff, I was however, pointing out that SoO became quick farm status near the end because the WoD talent system came in a while before the expansion (same time they removed the Heirloom weapons I believe). I'm just saying for our population numbers (that we last knew of) for sub 1000 US/NA guilds to have cleared the last raid is not super amazing. What I am saying is that the content for WoD is not a 'joke' and super easy as a previous poster claimed.

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Well, that kind of shit has happened since 3.0 made SWP a joke....

I mean technically it happened in Vanilla as well since near the end anyone could get the warlord weapons for honor, that was a couple months prior to TBC launcing I think. So yeah it happens when you are nearing the end of an expansion and stuff.