It looks like I don't want Legion at all.

[Ermelloth]

Yes, WoD was a lackluster expansion, mediocre at most.

Yes, the game population is in serious decline- a lot of people are off, Btag friend list became dull more than ever and city chats are empty like mid-level Azeroth zones on RP-PvP realms.

Yes, there is little to do endgame-wise. 3vs3 Arena is limited to certain comps to be somewhat successful, 2s are dreadful, RBGs are "no-entry" for 3/4 of class/specs combos, etc.

I can go on forever. But AT LEAST I can still go to random BGs, Ashran, skirmish game or just go outside with my Ret, pick a fight vs. a player of nearly every other class / spec and have a chance of defeating him if I play well, often even without having to use LoH as a "cheating" option of last resort. Yes, we might be not really great in current high rated PvP meta vs. FOTM comps and setups, but at least we can enjoy the game. At least as a solo fighter.

So long. In Legion, as it looks right now, they decided to strip Ret even of that.

No longer will we able to remove multiple slow spams from a Snow Mage, trying to catch the blinking bastard; now the Mage overlord will just laugh at us, machinegunning a hopeless Ret while stealing our Freedom which seems to be our last remnant of MoP / WoD mobility we still keep.

No more will we be able to run back and still get a Rebuke on that fat Warlock bastard, who keeps Fearing us into oblivion while his minions slowing us by dazing in the back.

No more will we catch any competent Hunter, or Boomkin, or ... hell, anything which is able to constantly spam slows and roots and have spammable CC.

Why would I want to buy such expansion, if all of the above is true?

Sorry, but I would rather stay with bad and boring Warlords of Draenor.

They are basically forcing anyone who is maining Ret and play PvP to either reroll or go for private servers, avoiding incoming Legion disaster.

P.S. I know things might yet change, but looking at previous expansions, I have no optimism left.

P.P.S. If all these solo gameplay Ret nerfs come out of need to balance LoH... I said it lots of times - remove LoH from the game. It's not needed and not wanted by Ret PvP'ers at most times (nor it is usable in Arena). Remove LoH and let us keep Emancipation at least.

[Fenrkyr]

Well your first problem is expecting to beat a mage at anything.

That isn't allowed in this game.

[Ermelloth]

Well your first problem is expecting to beat a mage at anything.

That isn't allowed in this game.

My thoughts exactly, since - OMG - right now I can go on equal terms with a Frost Mage in solo fight, even experienced one.

They've probably decided that it cannot go on anymore and that any Mages, Locks, Spriests, Hunters and Boomkins should always kill a Ret 100% of the time.

If this is going to be so, I will gladly let them play their Legion themselves. There is plenty of other games on the market right now. 8 years WoW player, but sorry - I don't want to play an invalid, crippled, immobile spec which is dying to any ranged attacker without a single chance of surviving an encounter.

[Deleted]

Such hyperbole

You have Divine Steed and Hand of Hinderance to speed yourself or slow them.

HP reduces the cd of Fist of Justice with a talent, you can stun once every 20 seconds almost. You can Blinding Light to disorinate them which DOES NOT break on holy damage so you can stilll do pretty decent damage to them even when disorinated. You have Seal of Light which also increases movement speed by 20%

Sounds like you are more salty about frost mages in general.

[Yamuri]

Use moar stun. It's rock paper scissors, if you play something that's going to slow or root you then of course you'll get wrecked if you don't counter it. So ret isn't good against that where as ranged are fine against that and warriors have charge and their own slows.

As of now theres tons of issues with the skills/spells. if you look at warrior, it says charge has a 1 sec cooldown. That's just ridiculous, i'm sure that won't stay and is just an error on blizzards part. in WoD beta, a lot of channeled spells had no cooldowns, I remember penance battles. It's not release for a reason.

[Ermelloth]

You have Divine Steed and Hand of Hinderance to speed yourself or slow them.

Are you serious? Divine Steed - 4 sec duration with 60 sec. cooldown while nearly any ranged class can instantly reapply slows or roots.

I would rather have no changes than changes like this. To be weak in rated endgame, but to be able to handle world pvp encounters.

[Deleted]

Are you serious? Divine Steed - 4 sec duration with 60 sec. cooldown while nearly any ranged class can instantly reapply slows or roots.

That isnt the only ability you have, you expect to be immune to CC or what? Hand of Freedom, Hand of Protection?, Divine Shield on top of all the other abilties I listed, you can self heal alot, have Shield of Vengeance, Hand of Light, Greater Blessings etc. You cant expect to be immune to every slow in the game, otherwise whats the point in giving any class a slow?

Derp

[Krille]

Yes, WoD was a lackluster expansion, mediocre at most.

Yes, the game population is in serious decline- a lot of people are off, Btag friend list became dull more than ever and city chats are empty like mid-level Azeroth zones on RP-PvP realms.

Yes, there is little to do endgame-wise. 3vs3 Arena is limited to certain comps to be somewhat successful, 2s are dreadful, RBGs are "no-entry" for 3/4 of class/specs combos, etc.

I can go on forever. But AT LEAST I can still go to random BGs, Ashran, skirmish game or just go outside with my Ret, pick a fight vs. a player of nearly every other class / spec and have a chance of defeating him if I play well, often even without having to use LoH as a "cheating" option of last resort. Yes, we might be not really great in current high rated PvP meta vs. FOTM comps and setups, but at least we can enjoy the game. At least as a solo fighter.

So long. In Legion, as it looks right now, they decided to strip Ret even of that.

No longer will we able to remove multiple slow spams from a Snow Mage, trying to catch the blinking bastard; now the Mage overlord will just laugh at us, machinegunning a hopeless Ret while stealing our Freedom which seems to be our last remnant of MoP / WoD mobility we still keep.

No more will we be able to run back and still get a Rebuke on that fat Warlock bastard, who keeps Fearing us into oblivion while his minions slowing us by dazing in the back.

No more will we catch any competent Hunter, or Boomkin, or ... hell, anything which is able to constantly spam slows and roots and have spammable CC.

Why would I want to buy such expansion, if all of the above is true?

Sorry, but I would rather stay with bad and boring Warlords of Draenor.

They are basically forcing anyone who is maining Ret and play PvP to either reroll or go for private servers, avoiding incoming Legion disaster.

P.S. I know things might yet change, but looking at previous expansions, I have no optimism left.

P.P.S. If all these solo gameplay Ret nerfs come out of need to balance LoH... I said it lots of times - remove LoH from the game. It's not needed and not wanted by Ret PvP'ers at most times (nor it is usable in Arena). Remove LoH and let us keep Emancipation at least.

Snore. Boring thread is boring. So what you don't like it? You're not entitled to anything. Leave the game and never come back. Trust me, it's good for you.

[Ermelloth]

Snore. Boring thread is boring. So what you don't like it? You're not entitled to anything. Leave the game and never come back. Trust me, it's good for you.

Pure trolling and not even a word, related to thread itself. Reported for trolling, then.

2Wymarc:

As a player (just like you), I have the right to express my opinion and my views, just like every other player here. If you say we're immune to everything, you're either trolling or kidding, I don't really know. There is little to no spec such susceptible to CC as we are, along with our Divine Shield and easily removable Hand of Protection.

[Thrif]

That isnt the only ability you have, you expect to be immune to CC or what? Hand of Freedom, Hand of Protection?, Divine Shield on top of all the other abilties I listed, you can self heal alot, have Shield of Vengeance, Hand of Light, Greater Blessings etc. You cant expect to be immune to every slow in the game, otherwise whats the point in giving any class a slow?

Derp

You do know that Ret have this spell that breaks all slows right now, right?

[Deleted]

Pure trolling and not even a word, related to thread itself. Reported for trolling, then.

2Wymarc:

As a player (just like you), I have the right to express my opinion and my views, just like every other player here. If you say we're immune to everything, you're either trolling or kidding, I don't really know. There is little to no spec such susceptible to CC as we are, along with our Divine Shield and easily removable Hand of Protection.

I didnt say we are immune ^^ I said you sound like you want rets to be immune to it. Lets take mages for example. In Legion they have quite alot of slows still but no stuns. You don't need to make it sound like someone is trying to murder your mother xD

- - - Updated - - -

You do know that Ret have this spell that breaks all slows right now, right?

Which has a cd and can be dispelled and spellstolen, as the OP mentioned xD you are not immune completly unless you are Divine Shielding, which has lost its damage reduction component. So keks for doing full burst whilst being immune to everything

[LiiLoSNK]

I'm not getting legion because me am not want all paladin use ashbringer. Like, what hell? I want be only one with ashbringer. Legion confirm prank bro.

[Ermelloth]

You do know that Ret have this spell that breaks all slows right now, right?

Who is talking about right now? Yes, we have a spell that breaks all the slows, but this is our 4-expansion-long trade-off for a lack of any instant gap closer or opener / teleportation ability or stealth.

Ret was able to remove slows and roots in TBC, Wrath, then most part of Cata, all MoP and WoD. It's iconic. It was incorporated into Cleanse, then was renamed Enancipate and stayed so till now.

Warlocks have Teleports.
Monks have Teleports, Flying Serpent Kick.
Warriors have Charge.
DKs have Death Grip (they pull opponent to them instead of charging at them).
Rogues have Shadowstep / Burst of Speed / Cloak and Dagger.
Hunters have Disengage jump.
Druids have various gap closer talents.
Mages got Blink.

Try to remove any of these from the aforementioned classes / specs and see how they perform in any kind of PvP then.

[Thrif]

Which has a cd and can be dispelled and spellstolen, as the OP mentioned xD you are not immune completly unless you are Divine Shielding, which has lost its damage reduction component. So keks for doing full burst whilst being immune to everything

No CD, can't be dispelled, can't be spellstolen. Do you think I'm talking about hand of freedom?

- - - Updated - - -

Who is talking about right now? Yes, we have a spell that breaks all the slows, but this is our 4-expansion-long trade-off for a lack of any instant gap closer or opener / teleportation ability or stealth.

Ret was able to remove slows and roots in TBC, Wrath, then most part of Cata, all MoP and WoD. It's iconic. It was incorporated into Cleanse, then was renamed Enancipate and stayed so till now.

Right now = WoD. I'm talking about emancipation.

Just trying to make a point that Wymarc doesn't know what he's talking about when he says that being "immune to slows" is impossible, while Paladins practically are just that, right now.

[Ermelloth]

Right now = WoD. I'm talking about emancipation.

Same. And it's vital for Ret PvP right now. W/o it we can't perform at all, I'd say.

Both no instant gap closer / charge like ability and no Emancipate = end of story for Ret as a WPvP / solo / adventure class. It can become a new Arms Warrior, intended to play with healer only to be able to ever catch an opponent in Arena... Even if they increase our damage potential to 150% then and give us a mortal strike type ability, I wouldn't want such a tradeoff.

[Faesroll]

yawn, mandatory whine thread while there's at least 6 months before the expac, come back when you actually played it and then feel free to complain

[Malthanis]

There's really no discussion to be had here.

Closing.