Is it really fun to kill the same bosses for more than a year?

[Rioo]

Mist of Pandaria is the only expansion where I stayed subbed and kept raiding every week in the last tier. It was shit, even when we could clear SoO in one short raid. I wish I had unsubscribed back then, or at least just stopped raiding.

[silverstarzs]

You are vastly underestimating the difficulty of creating any sort of meaningful "AI" on a raid boss.

Actually I know quite a bit about AI's.

"Difficult" is actually good for Bliz - because it would make their game distinctive in a way harder to copy.

This is a leading game, from a company with massive resources. Smarter AI's are not at all beyond their reach, and it would be good for them and for us players.

As to how to do it . . . . our objectives here are twofold #1 we want to make the bosses more interesting to pull/kill repeatably, and #2 we want to make the bosses fundamentally smarter so we can reduce the annoying layers of mechanics while still preserving the difficulty.

There are several layers of possibilities to accomplish those two things. The simplest two are to execute a larger set of mechanics, only a few of which get chosen in each fight, and to start off boss and adds with different initial conditions. Second would be to have the boss react to raid team composition and raid team behavior. Third, most difficult, and probably more controversial, would be to have the boss actually learn - either from a particular encounter or from all encounters.

If you are having trouble grasping this, you want to change your mid-set - think chess programs rather than 'shooters'. You can play chess programs endlessly - every game different, but roughly the same difficulty.

[Netherbrood]

Actually I know quite a bit about AI's.

"Difficult" is actually good for Bliz - because it would make their game distinctive in a way harder to copy.

This is a leading game, from a company with massive resources. Smarter AI's are not at all beyond their reach, and it would be good for them and for us players.

As to how to do it . . . . our objectives here are twofold #1 we want to make the bosses more interesting to pull/kill repeatably, and #2 we want to make the bosses fundamentally smarter so we can reduce the annoying layers of mechanics while still preserving the difficulty.

There are several layers of possibilities to accomplish those two things. The simplest two are to execute a larger set of mechanics, only a few of which get chosen in each fight, and to start off boss and adds with different initial conditions. Second would be to have the boss react to raid team composition and raid team behavior. Third, most difficult, and probably more controversial, would be to have the boss actually learn - either from a particular encounter or from all encounters.

If you are having trouble grasping this, you want to change your mid-set - think chess programs rather than 'shooters'. You can play chess programs endlessly - every game different, but roughly the same difficulty.

I have thought about it too, it would make the game so much more fun to play. The issue with the last option is that the bosses will get to the point of being unkillable. A potential fix for this is to eigther have a hard cap to the learning that the bosses are capable of or have them reset onece every two of so weeks

[silverstarzs]

I have thought about it too, it would make the game so much more fun to play. The issue with the last option is that the bosses will get to the point of being unkillable. A potential fix for this is to eigther have a hard cap to the learning that the bosses are capable of or have them reset onece every two of so weeks

and/or as the boss learns, the numbers are detuned - so he is smarter but weaker; which would then cause another learning cycle.

[Xanthan]

Actually I know quite a bit about AI's.

"Difficult" is actually good for Bliz - because it would make their game distinctive in a way harder to copy.

This is a leading game, from a company with massive resources. Smarter AI's are not at all beyond their reach, and it would be good for them and for us players.

As to how to do it . . . . our objectives here are twofold #1 we want to make the bosses more interesting to pull/kill repeatably, and #2 we want to make the bosses fundamentally smarter so we can reduce the annoying layers of mechanics while still preserving the difficulty.

There are several layers of possibilities to accomplish those two things. The simplest two are to execute a larger set of mechanics, only a few of which get chosen in each fight, and to start off boss and adds with different initial conditions. Second would be to have the boss react to raid team composition and raid team behavior. Third, most difficult, and probably more controversial, would be to have the boss actually learn - either from a particular encounter or from all encounters.

If you are having trouble grasping this, you want to change your mid-set - think chess programs rather than 'shooters'. You can play chess programs endlessly - every game different, but roughly the same difficulty.

None of that is "AI" except your vague suggestion that the boss learns from fights, which is just a dumb idea in a game where any boss can trivially wipe any raid by using its abilities in unfair combinations or simply by ignoring tanks. Chess programs work because you're playing a symmetrical game. In order to be even the slightest bit possible to do what you're suggesting, you'd need to completely scrap the current raiding model, encounter design, and class design, and replace it with something more akin to Evolve. Good luck with that.

[Trickname]

Did it with ICC and refused to do it again. Even then (and with TBC actually) it was my guild community keeping me there more than the raids. With SoO I came back for the final 5 months, found a guild desperately trying to keep their numbers up and got mostly full mythic gear before WoD.

I'd like to say it's "not fun" but its subjective.

[Deavane]

I've known some people who stay subscribed all the way through no matter what and I don't get it. It seems really ridiculous to pay 15$ a month and you're doing the same raid that you did months and months ago. Nothing has changed but you just repeat the same thing week in and week out.

How come people don't unsubscribe and try out different games or spend their time more constructively?

I pay $15 to raid for about four hours a week. I'm still trying to get my mount (mythic Archimonde) and occasionally play alts. I guess I'm not super bothered about the raid situation because the $15 I spend every months isn't very much to me.

[Meiluy]

Dude, you're assuming that all people do is raid. There are plenty of people who stay subscribed because all they do is PvP, or some who pet battle, or some who just level alts, or work the AH, etc. Heck, I'm subscribed still because I bought two years worth of tokens so I never had to worry about whether I could afford to play or not, and all I do is mess around in old world content most of the time.

Also: Killing the same bosses for a year? I've lost track of the amount of times I've killed Lich King trying to get that damn mount... hell, I think I've got even longer trying to get the Deathcharger from Strath....

[George Costanza]

Raiding is BORING.

[Elewood]

I have fun because I still have my main core group of friends who don't make it like a job.