739iLvl Raid - Why are we not 1Doomfire-ing Phase 1? [Mythic Archimonde]

[Jondar]

2/18/2016 Updated Logs:https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1799&wipes=1

We started lusting at the start on pull #11 I believe to attempt to 1 phase it.
We dropped a healer and brought in a DPS, but our push timing didn't even change.

It's pretty obvious it's a mix of two things; comp and people not opening/doing their rotations properly. Our comp is weird. But at this iLvl it should be doable. We have

3 Warlocks
4 Hunters
2 Mages
2 Death Knights
3 Warriors
1 Paladin

Next night we will have a Feral DPS in for either a warrior or a hunter. I'm Gnomedeezy on the logs.

I'm wondering if anyone is able to help me figure out what our DPS is doing that they shouldn't be. I'm not the raid leader but am keen on passing on tips to people. It seems odd to feel like I should do this on Mythic Archi, but I don't wanna spend an unnecessary amount of time on these kinds of things.

[Herecius]

One of your mages is FROST.

Why?

He's not even breaking 100k in the first minute for goodness' sake.

EDIT: ...actually, none of your raiders are breaking 200k with consistency in the first minute and a half. That's abysmally low, hate to say. Even our tanks break 120-150k in the first phase.

[Berri]

Tell your Death Knights to play Breath of Sindragosa - Necrotic Plague does almost no burst damage. You will loose a little bit of damage on the Dreadstalkers as a result.

[Valech]

We had the same issue as you. Instead of teaching each individual slacker how to play ther opening properly we lusted at phase 3 and kept 2 doomfires. If you can´t figure out what´s going wrong, you might wanna consider this.

[Nico3337]

well your two mages should do around 450-600k average on pulls so there is that

I don't know what Äsar is doing wrong exactly as I'm not keen at analyzing logs, but his arcane blast is higher on damage done than his crystal after 2 rings, which shouldn't be the case so I assume his opener is way off. He should have 1 precast, then place the crystal -> activate arcane power then start bursting on it. If Doom nova proccs on it, great, dump your arcane missiles into that. If it proccs on the boss use arcane missiles on it and then switch back to crystal with arcane blasts. As said above the other mage is frost aswell and he should specc arcane for bursting

Also make sure Archimonde doesn't move on the pull, so the mages can place the crystals in front of him, which will kill the first doomfire before the ring hits along with the rest of the cleave from other classes

[TTom2755]

Drop 2 healers, seirously.

4 is overkill, most guilds are using 3 healers with the improved ilvl, our guild had some low dps so we couldn't get 1 doomfire with 3 healers so we dropped one and 2 healed the fight and got 1 doomfire and killed it.

[Deleted]

Your warriors should play Arms for Archimonde and also warrs don't have that big burst that is needed at the start.

Also cast timewarp at the pull and delay ring to hit only Archi. That's how we do it with 4 healers setup

[Herecius]

Additionally; why are you waiting 6-7 seconds to lust? Should lust almost the instant you pull so it's done with trinkets and ring. If you ring the instant you pull it will hit only Archimonde. Or just have the currently-tanking tank stand on one side of the boss and the melee using the ring on the far opposite side to be sure it only hits Arch. But certainly don't delay it.

[Jondar]

Drop 2 healers, seirously.

4 is overkill, most guilds are using 3 healers with the improved ilvl, our guild had some low dps so we couldn't get 1 doomfire with 3 healers so we dropped one and 2 healed the fight and got 1 doomfire and killed it.

That is in consideration I believe, and we did start using 3 healers when we started lusting (12th Pull) but my goal ITT is to get people advice so they can be doing the numbers they should be.

[Herecius]

Your warriors should play Arms for Archimonde and also warrs don't have that big burst that is needed at the start.

Also cast timewarp at the pull and delay ring to hit only Archi. That's how we do it with 4 healers setup

You do one doomfire with 4 healers? Color me impressed.

[Deleted]

Basically:

1) 3 Warriors...
2) No Rogues
3) Retlol

oh and Hero/Bloodlust is way to late.

[Deleted]

You do one doomfire with 4 healers? Color me impressed.

It's possible when we hit the ring right after the first doomfire dies and first deathcaller spawns.

[Jondar]

Basically:

1) 3 Warriors...
2) No Rogues
3) Retlol

oh and Hero/Bloodlust is way to late.

ah rogues.. the dream

[Nitros14]

One doomfire isn't really needed to kill the boss. 2 doomfires is still far easier than the 3 doomfires guilds always used to do. And if you have 4 healers phase 2 is pretty stable as long as you don't do anything too dumb.

Having lust for phase 3 is really nice. Pushes you through infernal waves you wouldn't normally have anything up for.

We killed it quite recently. We tried 3 heal lust in phase 1 for a while but found 4 heal, 2 doomfire lust in phase 3 got us to phase 3 most consistently. Video here if it helps.

[Scyclone]

Alrighty.

Frost is fine, but your frost mage is screwing up... severely.

They should be using their class trinket, I only looked at one attempt but it seems like they are using Prophecy and Seethe. Seethe is better generally, tho a 'lucky' prophecy can generate more burst damage if timed properly. They are casting a decent bit of ice lances without fingers of frost procs, and to make matters worse... its all still being done without that class trinket (it effectively doubles the damage of our best spell).

His burst during the initial pull capped at just above 200k, on a fight where he can cleave from the get-go with ice lances to the boss/doomfire. In retrospect, I did Mythic Iron Reaver the other day, with 6 less ilvl than your frost mage, on a single target fight, capping at around 500k on my burst.

I cannot help for the rest, but have your mage use his trinket (and never unequip the class trinket ever again :P), and time his frostbolt/ice lances properly. Between that, Icy Veins going, 4 set keeping your fingers of frost rolling, frozen orb between boss and doomfire. They should be able to continue unloading and keep Icy Veins up until the first shadowfel burst at least.

[Incredimage]

So I looked at the mage Asar and wow. I can't even begin to describe how terrible he is at Arcane. First thing's first, he ignores his Missiles completely in his opener. Then after Evocation even though he has 3 charges he continues to ignore them until he casts 4 Arcane Blasts. Then he dumps all 3 Arcane Missiles and Barrages at 100% mana. He clearly doesn't understand Arcane at all and needs to learn the spec before trying to play it. There is no one thing he's doing wrong, it's everything.

The Frost Mage should learn to play Arcane with this guy. Asar's gear in particular is phenomenal for not having killed Archi yet but he is holding you guys back more than anyone other than Anekaa. If they both learned to play Arcane and performed at even a decent level they would completely make up for your mediocre comp in timing for P1. 3 Arms Warriors can carry in P3 as well and do solid Deathcaller damage.

Your Frost Mage doesn't actually cast anything for 8 seconds about 14 seconds into the fight on this last attempt. What is he doing that requires that much movement? I saw he got fixated by the doomfire but does it not die in 5 seconds considering all the Ring/Lusted DPS? He shouldn't need to move far at all let alone 8 seconds worth of movement out of max range of the boss.

[Scyclone]

So I looked at the mage Asar and wow. I can't even begin to describe how terrible he is at Arcane. 1st thing's first, he ignores his Missiles completely in his opener. Then after Evocation even though he has 3 charges he continues to ignore them until he casts 4 Arcane Blasts. Then he dumps all 3 Arcane Missiles and Barrages at 100% mana. He clearly doesn't understand Arcane at all and needs to learn the spec before trying to play it. There is no one thing he's doing wrong, it's everything.

The Frost Mage should learn to play Arcane with this guy. Asar's gear in particular is phenomenal for not having killed Archi yet but he is holding you guys back more than anyone other than Anekaa. If they both learned to play Arcane and performed at even a decent level they would completely make up for your mediocre comp in timing for P1. 3 Arms Warriors can carry in P3 as well and do solid Deathcaller damage.

I disagree on one point of this statement... Don't have your frost mage learn to play arcane, if he can't handle frost properly, he certainly will result in Asar's arcane gameplay :P. If he does somehow learn to do arcane properly, then yeah, go for it... but you may need him to tighten up his gameplay before he takes on the most micromanaging of mage specs.

[Incredimage]

I disagree on one point of this statement... Don't have your frost mage learn to play arcane, if he can't handle frost properly, he certainly will result in Asar's arcane gameplay :P. If he does somehow learn to do arcane properly, then yeah, go for it... but you may need him to tighten up his gameplay before he takes on the most micromanaging of mage specs.

Fair enough. I took another look at the Frost Mage and yeah, he just doesn't get the ABCs of Caster DPS.

[barackohmama]

Your warriors should play Arms for Archimonde and also warrs don't have that big burst that is needed at the start.

Also cast timewarp at the pull and delay ring to hit only Archi. That's how we do it with 4 healers setup

If they want to push boss before 2nd doomfire those warrior should definitely not go arms. Fury is a much better choice as the single target damage on archimonde is greater. As long as the tanks dont suck and ppl switch to deathcallers it's the way to go. Well arms could be good if they snap doomfires properly with execute, but 3 arms warriors doing that wont just work. I'd say go with 2 fury and 1 arms. The arms warrior can try to get executes on doomfire during ring, the other warriors just fury tunnel boss with class trinkets. It's gonna help in p2 aswell to push p3 faster.

[Scyclone]

Fair enough. I took another look at the Frost Mage and yeah, he just doesn't get the ABCs of Caster DPS.

Yeah, I think that when played to its limits and geared differently from the guides, Frost really can be effective. Arcane certainly beats it but is far less forgiving on mistakes. Factoring in a slower dps guild (meaning no super speed kills) and natural human error at times, I'd like to say that I am comparable to any skilled arcane mage of my ilvl. Though I've spent a lot of time trying to keep myself from making bad mistakes and habits. I don't use Icy Floes anymore, since it forces me to learn how to position better and move less in an encounter, for example.

I think for someone like this to be able to turn out frosts potential, they'd need to work on their basics of ranged dps play before anything else.