[Legion] Holy Wrath makes no sense at all.

[Schattenlied]

I dont think that'd work based on the movement speed of mobs in general, unless snared they move faster than players.

The movement capability was more meant for PvP, and the fact that a class already lacking gap closers shouldn't have to stop moving to use a finisher and lose ground on it's target... If you use it on a PvE mob that is running away faster than you can run, and it breaks before it's finished because it got out of range, that's your own damn fault.

vacuum

I think the reason I don't like the vacuum is because it would lack the selfhealing survivability that Ret badly needs right now, which is why I tried to rework the ability within it's current purpose, healing and damaging equal amounts to the paladin and their target.

[ruiizu]

The movement capability was more meant for PvP, and the fact that a class already lacking gap closers shouldn't have to stop moving to use a finisher and lose ground on it's target... If you use it on a PvE mob that is running away faster than you can run, and it breaks before it's finished because it got out of range, that's your own damn fault.



I think the reason I don't like the vacuum is because it would lack the selfhealing survivability that Ret badly needs right now, which is why I tried to rework the ability within it's current purpose, healing and damaging equal amounts to the paladin and their target.

I don't see why it couldn't still have a heal attached to it. Maybe the 1-2 second cast causes you to regain life when you click it (activates the cooldown one way or the other) since you're "charging up light."

[Schattenlied]

I don't see why it couldn't still have a heal attached to it. Maybe the 1-2 second cast causes you to regain life when you click it (activates the cooldown one way or the other) since you're "charging up light."

If you are just channeling and getting health back without anything else, eh... if you are fighting someone that isn't trying to run away it won't accomplish much, that healing will be negated by the damage they do in the time it takes you to channel it - if you are doing damage at the same time you are still progressing the fight, not just putting it on pause for 3 seconds.

Also it needs to be a viable damage choice against Seal of Light in the final tier of talents - some of us, scratch that, most of us hated Inquisition and SoL is Inq 3.0... and right now SoL is MANDATORY, and that needs to end, that won't happen unless something in the third tier is changed to a viable DPS option, and it's not gonna be WoG.

SoL provides damage through haste and utility through movement speed, Holy Wrath also does both, but straight damage and it's utility is selfhealing... Your suggestion would make it 100% a utility spell and that is not what we need in our L100 tier right now, Word of Glory already covers the pure utility role... If you want more utility on top of a utility spell, a better suggestion would be to put that vacuum effect on WoG.

[Celebhil]

I was wondering how they could "fix" turalyons might to be less clunky. What if it were instead another talent in the final tier, something to compete with holy wrath?

3 holy power (X CD; i think at minimum 12 or 15 secs to 1min), you fling your sword to the ground in target area doing aoe holy damage (have it comparable to divine storm)
You can reactivate the spell within 6 seconds, which will cause you to instantaneously land in the area doing a slash attack for additional holy damage. The CD and holy power cost is for the purpose of making a spell the player should want to use sparingly but purposely, and not something you can just spam or initiate with.


An addition idea is add a refund, if you successfuly deal damage, you are refunded 2 or 3 holy power. This way you give the player an option; if you really want to use it as a way to retreat you can (but itll deplete your hp), but if you skillshot well, you are rewarded for it.

[ruiizu]

If you are just channeling and getting health back without anything else, eh... if you are fighting someone that isn't trying to run away it won't accomplish much, that healing will be negated by the damage they do in the time it takes you to channel it - if you are doing damage at the same time you are still progressing the fight, not just putting it on pause for 3 seconds.

Also it needs to be a viable damage choice against Seal of Light in the final tier of talents - some of us, scratch that, most of us hated Inquisition and SoL is Inq 3.0... and right now SoL is MANDATORY, and that needs to end, that won't happen unless something in the third tier is changed to a viable DPS option, and it's not gonna be WoG.

SoL provides damage through haste and utility through movement speed, Holy Wrath also does both, but straight damage and it's utility is selfhealing... Your suggestion would make it 100% a utility spell and that is not what we need in our L100 tier right now, Word of Glory already covers the pure utility role... If you want more utility on top of a utility spell, a better suggestion would be to put that vacuum effect on WoG.

Well, the vacuum utility was mostly an idea for flavor. The main point of the attack is that it hits really hard in a forward arc, like a wave of light. The vacuum effect just hasn't been used so to make it "different," I thought it would be cool to have that added in.

[Eapoe]

Isn't this just Breath of Sindragosa for Paladins? I mean, the ideas are interesting you guys are proposing, but if that's the idea Blizz is going for I wouldn't count on much of a change, if any at all outside of number tuning.

[ruiizu]

Isn't this just Breath of Sindragosa for Paladins? I mean, the ideas are interesting you guys are proposing, but if that's the idea Blizz is going for I wouldn't count on much of a change, if any at all outside of number tuning.

Breath of Sindragosa is just a channeled breath damage. What I'm suggesting is a casted spell where the Paladin draws holy energy into Ashbringer, pulling enemies towards him/her during the cast, and then unleashing the holy energy in a massive damaging wave, knocking enemies back and dealing holy damage as one big hit.

Naturally you'd probably want a glyph that removes the knockback for dragonslaying. The idea here is to have a cooldown attack as a damage boost to compete with a maintenance buff.

[Schattenlied]

Isn't this just Breath of Sindragosa for Paladins? I mean, the ideas are interesting you guys are proposing, but if that's the idea Blizz is going for I wouldn't count on much of a change, if any at all outside of number tuning.

No, not even slightly... Breath of Sindragosa is a long term effect that deals very minor damage per second, this would deal a rather high amount of damage in a very concentrated, short time period. The AoE one that Ruiizu suggested anyways, my suggestion would still be single target.

[Eapoe]

Breath of Sindragosa is a stand still channeled ability that costs RP per second and is done when it runs out. It's not that long lasting and in burst phases and times with procs is an incredibly high damage dealing component for current Frost DK's. On Live anyways, no idea how it's changing, if at all, in Legion.

- - - Updated - - -

Breath of Sindragosa is just a channeled breath damage. What I'm suggesting is a casted spell where the Paladin draws holy energy into Ashbringer, pulling enemies towards him/her during the cast, and then unleashing the holy energy in a massive damaging wave, knocking enemies back and dealing holy damage as one big hit.

Naturally you'd probably want a glyph that removes the knockback for dragonslaying. The idea here is to have a cooldown attack as a damage boost to compete with a maintenance buff.

Think there's some misunderstanding. Wasnt talking about your idea. Meant the current Alpha build of Holy Wrath and Live version of BoS.

[tuesday the paladin]

Breath of Sindragosa is just a channeled breath damage. What I'm suggesting is a casted spell where the Paladin draws holy energy into Ashbringer, pulling enemies towards him/her during the cast, and then unleashing the holy energy in a massive damaging wave, knocking enemies back and dealing holy damage as one big hit.

Naturally you'd probably want a glyph that removes the knockback for dragonslaying. The idea here is to have a cooldown attack as a damage boost to compete with a maintenance buff.

Get rid of the knockback and that's literally the exact same as the Condemn spell with the vacuum rune for crusaders in D3. Blizzard could be a little hesitant about giving WoW paladins all of the cool abilities that D3 crusaders have.

[Schattenlied]

Think there's some misunderstanding. Wasnt talking about your idea. Meant the current Alpha build of Holy Wrath and Live version of BoS.

The current Alpha build version of Holy Wrath is single target and does a lot of DPS for a short period of time (~2-2.5s after haste) - BoS is an AoE ability that does very low DPS over a potentially long period of time (up to 8s).

Those two things are in no way similar.

[ruiizu]

Get rid of the knockback and that's literally the exact same as the Condemn spell with the vacuum rune for crusaders in D3. Blizzard could be a little hesitant about giving WoW paladins all of the cool abilities that D3 crusaders have.

Ah, is that so? I never played D3 beyond the original game (stopped after reaching Inferno way back), so I know nothing of Crusader abilities. I just like, you know, "slash waves."