Interview; two expacs per year?!

[Gorgodeus]

No they don't. This isn't Magic. This is digital. You can balance any card you want. Yes, I realize they want people to buy the expansions and packs. It's about making money. Secret paladin will phase out but some other ridiculous deck is going to take it's place this is a guarantee. If they just took their time, Balanced stuff, Released cards timely and wisely, We would have a better game. Pushing the meta in different directions? The meta constantly consists of 3-4 decks at most for 6-8 months at a time. That isn't fresh. That is stale. If they balanced the game then more cards and decks would be viable. Maybe just maybe, Standard will do this. We will see.

You seem very ignorant on the subject. You don't just keep releasing cards and magically make them all balanced. It is impossible. Eventually, you will end up either having cards that are more powerful than older cards in order to make people want them, or a bunch of cards that are a waste of development because new cards are no better than old ones. Then add in the drawback of more cards = broken combos. Go play you some Vintage MtG, and see all the turn 1 and Turn 0 kill combos, even with a significant ban list, then get back with me.

Currently HS has a lot more than 3-4 Tier 1 decks, and always has. In that respect, it is better than MtG, which typically sees 2-3 decktypes win around 60% of their tournaments every year.

Not a single CCG that lasted any length of time has ever been able to not go to a limited format, without Power Creep becoming an issue.

[Pantalaimon]

You seem very ignorant on the subject. You don't just keep releasing cards and magically make them all balanced. It is impossible. Eventually, you will end up either having cards that are more powerful than older cards in order to make people want them, or a bunch of cards that are a waste of development because new cards are no better than old ones. Then add in the drawback of more cards = broken combos. Go play you some Vintage MtG, and see all the turn 1 and Turn 0 kill combos, even with a significant ban list, then get back with me.

Currently HS has a lot more than 3-4 Tier 1 decks, and always has. In that respect, it is better than MtG, which typically sees 2-3 decktypes win around 60% of their tournaments every year.

Not a single CCG that lasted any length of time has ever been able to not go to a limited format, without Power Creep becoming an issue.

Not to mention I don't think a card game can easily thrive off of constantly changing what cards orginally were meant to do. Sure, some balance tweaks, but if you kept of altering the effects and/or stats of cards drastically because sometime down the road it rose in usefullness then it would be a huge motivation kill when playing the game. This isn't WoW or some other game where is is expected for things to constantly change with each expansion (such as how classes execute various unique rotations just for them to change later on).

[Gorgodeus]

Not to mention I don't think a card game can easily thrive off of constantly changing what cards orginally were meant to do. Sure, some balance tweaks, but if you kept of altering the effects and/or stats of cards drastically because sometime down the road it rose in usefullness then it would be a huge motivation kill when playing the game. This isn't WoW or some other game where is is expected for things to constantly change with each expansion (such as how classes execute various unique rotations just for them to change later on).

Yeah. Blizzard is taking the correct approach. By doing it in this way, they can simply re-tune certain cards as needed, instead of having to ban them altogether. After this initial re-tuning of the Core Set, and the Classic Set, I don't see them having to do a lot of tweaking down the road when the future expansions roll around.

[HisDudeness]

I don't think I'm ignorant in the issue. Even last night as I was watching Kripp's stream, He mentioned wanting to be able to balance future and old cards. I'm not alone in this issue. Comparing a card game to a RTS does not make sense. But, It does when your trying to balance a game. As far as tier 1 decks, Go to the Tempo storm site and check out the tier 1 decks lol. I hate to keep arguing with you Gorgodeus, but when you are constantly wrong you make it near impossible to have a decent conversation with you. Again, It's about money and I don't expect my point of view to be taken. It's about money plain and simple. It's not about balancing this game. The last few tournaments have proven that. They have been straight out of control.

[Nikkaszal]

I don't think I'm ignorant in the issue. Even last night as I was watching Kripp's stream, He mentioned wanting to be able to balance future and old cards. I'm not alone in this issue. Comparing a card game to a RTS does not make sense. But, It does when your trying to balance a game. As far as tier 1 decks, Go to the Tempo storm site and check out the tier 1 decks lol. I hate to keep arguing with you Gorgodeus, but when you are constantly wrong you make it near impossible to have a decent conversation with you. Again, It's about money and I don't expect my point of view to be taken. It's about money plain and simple. It's not about balancing this game. The last few tournaments have proven that. They have been straight out of control.

Oh well if only there was some sort of game mode coming in soon that will turn the state of the game on its head and remove all the unbalanced Naxx and GvG cards which are autoincluded because they're so strong

Oh wait

BTW the whole "money money money" thing you keep spouting pretty much guarantees that nothing you're saying ahould be taken seriously. The whole tinfoil hat "EVIL CORPORATION" thing is getting tiresome because it's so inane.

[Gorgodeus]

I don't think I'm ignorant in the issue. Even last night as I was watching Kripp's stream, He mentioned wanting to be able to balance future and old cards. I'm not alone in this issue. Comparing a card game to a RTS does not make sense. But, It does when your trying to balance a game. As far as tier 1 decks, Go to the Tempo storm site and check out the tier 1 decks lol. I hate to keep arguing with you Gorgodeus, but when you are constantly wrong you make it near impossible to have a decent conversation with you. Again, It's about money and I don't expect my point of view to be taken. It's about money plain and simple. It's not about balancing this game. The last few tournaments have proven that. They have been straight out of control.

The way you keep future cards balanced is by rotating cards out of play. It is a known, proven mathematical fact that never doing so, and keeping the game balanced would be impossible. And yes, you are completely ignorant on the issue. You see, they have hired HS pros, as well as MtG pros, to do nothing more than work on card balance, and did so quite some time ago. They even have former MtG designers and developers working for them, as well. I am very certain that these experts know more than you do on what must be done to keep the game balanced going forward.

[Raiju]

http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/1193-t...per-year-knife


Wow, that's going to be a lot of cards! Less adventures though and kinda like having them more often than expacs even though they have less cards.

It's less frequent than most other card games (that often release more per set) so I don't see how it's too much.

[rda]

You seem very ignorant on the subject. You don't just keep releasing cards and magically make them all balanced. It is impossible. Eventually, you will end up either having cards that are more powerful than older cards in order to make people want them, or a bunch of cards that are a waste of development because new cards are no better than old ones. Then add in the drawback of more cards = broken combos. Go play you some Vintage MtG, and see all the turn 1 and Turn 0 kill combos, even with a significant ban list, then get back with me.

Currently HS has a lot more than 3-4 Tier 1 decks, and always has. In that respect, it is better than MtG, which typically sees 2-3 decktypes win around 60% of their tournaments every year.

Not a single CCG that lasted any length of time has ever been able to not go to a limited format, without Power Creep becoming an issue.

Like your opponent said, it's digital. They can do tons of things which would be unthinkable in non-digital.

Several examples:

1. They can keep adding heroes. A new hero a year is already a lot of novelty, and since new heroes simply create parallels to other heroes, there is very little power creep. Obviously, they need to be creative enough to keep new heroes interesting and different, etc.

2. They can add mechanics like "if you are playing cards from this set in your deck, you can't include cards from one or more other sets". Ie, if you are playing demons, you can't play beasts and mechanicals - that's just an example. This way they can add power without fearing that it will come on top of existing power - new power will phase some of the existing power out.

3. They can improve matching. They can call current ranked semi-wild or whatever and make real ranked somewhat more serious by adding a pick and ban phase. It could be much more than what we see in tournaments where players just ban entire decks, they can make it so that you will be able to say 'no secrets', and that will disable specific strats that you think are OP. And they can evolve that over time, it can be infinitely flexible. Yes, there has to be some thought going into this. But the possibility is absolutely there.

Etc, etc, etc, I can go on for many pages.

The point is: they have tons of possibilities, they have millions of ways to add cards (infinitely, if that's desired) while keeping the balance in check. They aren't using even a fraction of them. (You know why? Because it's easier to be doing same old with miniscule tweaks.)

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The way you keep future cards balanced is by rotating cards out of play. It is a known, proven mathematical fact that never doing so, and keeping the game balanced would be impossible.

The second sentence is complete bullshit.

[Twoddle]

The way you keep future cards balanced is by rotating cards out of play. It is a known, proven mathematical fact that never doing so, and keeping the game balanced would be impossible.

The second sentence is complete bullshit.

To be fair the game can never be in perfect balance it doesn't need a mathematical proof.

A couple of weeks into an expansion the rock scissors paper decks naturally emerge and we get the Aggro Druids, Reno Locks and Secret Paladins. However the Lizards and Spocks are lying in wait for whenever they fall out of line.

Too many Secret Paladins attract the Face Hunters. Too many Aggro decks attract the control decks. It's never actually in balance. Problem is no one wants to play the same decks all day. It's an equilibrium but highly dynamic which stagnates as time passes.

[Mormolyce]

Secret Paladin isn't especially vulnerable to face hunter. Heavy control - eg control priest - is probably the best counter. The old midrange paladin used to shut down secret paladin pretty hard too, though it's not that popular at the moment.

Oh and that silly aggro shaman with all the overload spells seemed to do well against secret paladin. And almost nothing else.

[rda]

To be fair the game can never be in perfect balance it doesn't need a mathematical proof.

First, if we are talking in the strict sense, this is absolutely and obviously not the case. Second, this has very little to do with what Gorgodeus's post and my reply are about - my reply was that "rotating cards is required, it is a known, proven bla bla bla fact that not rotating cards makes balance impossible" is complete bullshit - and it is.

[Sarevokcz]

It is the only way to keep a CCG balanced, otherwise you have power creep enter the game, and it goes to total crap.

You cards will be part of Standard for the entire year in which they released, plus the full year following that.

well sure, as long as the vanilla cards actually are balanced, not unplayable POS cards noone ever touches even in arena. if vanilla is supposed to be with us forever, they better adjust those shitcans, otherwise you can all shout "balance" from the mount everest, but it wouldnt change the fact, that basically any released properly balanced, average card is going to be just flat out better than vanilla card just so we have to buy the packs, so stuff like heckler and ice rager should never ever happen again

[HisDudeness]

While my ways of presenting a argument are no way near as good as rda's, He pretty much nails it on the head. I never said it could be perfectly balanced. I also said in reference to Nikka that we'll see what standard brings. But, I remain iffy that it will change much. They are lazy in the fact of balancing this game. Look at arena, 10 years or more into WoW and it's still a mess. Rotating cards is not the answer. We are just going to get more OP and RNG based cards to replace the ones we have now. PERIOD.

The game is the way it is to attract players of every form. Easy to get into, Easy to play, and requires little skill. It's the poor mans dream so to speak. I don't expect them to ever make this game of skill. Ever. They are rotating in cards to make money and people want fresh cards, not a skilled/balanced game. We are as much to blame for the route this game took as Blizzard is. No one is forcing everyone to play secret paladin etc but they do. It's because no one wants that feeling of accomplishment for winning a hard fought victory. They want that easy victory and that oh so glorious card back. Plain and simple.

Like rda also said, The opportunities are endless for the features they could implement but again, They make this lazy change and just plan on going forth with releasing more cards. They want little involvement and big pay out. Can't blame them.

[Kickbuttmario]

A friend of mine once told me that MtG are doing what Blizzard is doing (hence why Blizz is doing it) but MtG would just remake the same cards as the previous expansions. Some the exact same effect but new pic/name and some with a little bonus.

[HisDudeness]

A friend of mine once told me that MtG are doing what Blizzard is doing (hence why Blizz is doing it) but MtG would just remake the same cards as the previous expansions. Some the exact same effect but new pic/name and some with a little bonus.

That is what happens when you release so many cards. Another reason Blizzard implemented RNG based cards such as a webspinner popping out a King Crush or jousting? Another reason they are making these ridiculously OP cards. I won't repeat myself from my previous post but it boils down to money and laziness. I can't wait to drop my turn 7 Dr. Bazooka and have my two cannons he drops randomly blast two minions for 2-4 damage 3 years from now. Going to be great!

[Nikkaszal]

That is what happens when you release so many cards. Another reason Blizzard implemented RNG based cards such as a webspinner popping out a King Crush or jousting? Another reason they are making these ridiculously OP cards. I won't repeat myself from my previous post but it boils down to money and laziness. I can't wait to drop my turn 7 Dr. Bazooka and have my two cannons he drops randomly blast two minions for 2-4 damage 3 years from now. Going to be great!

Are you actually insane?

Cards are being phased out to AVOID FURTHER POWER CREEP.

[Chickat]

A new card set every 4 months is perfectly acceptable. 2 expansions and 1 adventure per year is pretty spot on. MtG releases 4 per year, and it seems to work well for them.

Thats close to 300 cards a year if they keep pace with past ones.

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You will have a full year to collect cards before they are no longer valid in Standard

Remember: when Standard hits, BRM/TGT/LOE will all be valid... as will any new cards released this year. These new expacs will also be valid for NEXT year's Standard, then phased out in 2018.

So BRM/TGT/LOE will no longer be in Standard once 2017 hits?

[deadman1]

BTW the whole "money money money" thing you keep spouting pretty much guarantees that nothing you're saying ahould be taken seriously. The whole tinfoil hat "EVIL CORPORATION" thing is getting tiresome because it's so inane.

I agree that the new format is good for the health of the game.

BUT

Maybe it's because you are from Australia and aren't used to how greedy US companies are or something, but the fact is, US corporations only care about money. If you think activision has anything other than money in mind when they make decisions you have blinders on.

I mean it's $2 USD for 5 cards that you probably already have, and when you disenchant them you get 1/4 of the value back in dust, it's specifically designed to be small transactions that you don't pay much attention to and a disenchanting method that doesn't feel rewarding enough so you keep turning back and saying "Ahh it's only $2 I'll buy it."

[HisDudeness]

Are you actually insane?

Cards are being phased out to AVOID FURTHER POWER CREEP.

Yes I get it. You are the one that doesn't. They are bringing out new stuff and phasing out some so they don't have to compete. What you don't get is it WILL BE THE EXACT SAME GAME! NOTHING WILL CHANGE you flipping idiot. More OP cards. More RNG cards to replace the old OP cards and replace the RNG cards. Balance you fool! We want balance! Man you guys make this difficult. They have hundreds of cards ideally doing NOTHING! What's the point of them? You honestly think standard is going to make even 10 of those viable? You are blind. Balance those cards. Make them useful! They won't! They want money! They want people to buy packs! Plain and simple.

You are the same guy who is like, You should entomb that OP card and you would win. You state the obvious without any clear cut answer every single time you post. It's so irritating.

[Nikkaszal]

Yes I get it. You are the one that doesn't. They are bringing out new stuff and phasing out some so they don't have to compete. What you don't get is it WILL BE THE EXACT SAME GAME! NOTHING WILL CHANGE you flipping idiot. More OP cards. More RNG cards to replace the old OP cards and replace the RNG cards. Balance you fool! We want balance! Man you guys make this difficult. They have hundreds of cards ideally doing NOTHING! What's the point of them? You honestly think standard is going to make even 10 of those viable? You are blind. Balance those cards. Make them useful! They won't! They want money! They want people to buy packs! Plain and simple.

You are the same guy who is like, You should entomb that OP card and you would win. You state the obvious without any clear cut answer every single time you post. It's so irritating.

Oh you need it actually spelled out for you? Okay. Here it is:

The more cards that exist in a format of play, the harder it is to balance existing AND FUTURE cards.

You say "just balance" as if this is, for example, an RPG where one class is doing X% more damage than the others and needs a numbers tweak. This is a card game. There is not a single card that can be balanced in a vacuum; a change to a single card will not only affect it, but also interactions with other cards, whole decks, even whole classes.

With every new card added, this "balancing" difficulty widens. Say you get your dream wish and the game becomes magically balanced by changing a whole shit-ton of stuff - what happens when the next expac is released? Is everything still going to be "balanced" then? Fuck no. It would (a) either need to be looked at entirely AGAIN or (b) the new cards would have to be worthless so none of them get played to avoid upsetting your "balanced" game.

And this would continue forever.

Now from what I gather, you are of the opinion that cards should be CONTINUOUSLY changed to "balance" the game... even though you haven't really stated anywhere what you mean by balanced. Apart from that point in itself, even though HS is digital and COULD change cards every week, not only would this be a hideous amount of work involved but it would also make a complete shambles of the metagame. The meta needs to evolve naturally, which it does, as there is no one deck that beats everything. Strong threats come up, new decks come about to counter it, new decks come up to counter THAT, and so on and so on.

Standard does its own job of balancing the game. By thinning the card pools, the developers are free to add newer cards that (a) don't have to worry about breaking or being broken by half the available selection and (b) can IN THEMSELVES BE APPROPRIATELY BALANCED BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT FORCED TO POWER CREEP ON EXISTING CARDS.

TL;DR - thinking you can wave a magic balance stick every week is laughable.