So talking about hard dungeons

[Krom2040]

do you have any proofs of that statment ? or its just pure bs but it fits your agenda - so far any mmorpg for past 15 years on market is proving something exackly opposite - even wow was considered ultra casual when it was released - i remeber how much of a shock it was for me that after my first death in wow i didnt loose ton of exp or people around didnt loot my body for items i had on me which was pretty normal for any other mmorpg at that time

"Challenge" does not equal "inconvenience". There is a significant gap between what people accept as something that's an interesting challenge and what's just perceived as needlessly punitive. Losing all your stuff when you die is silly when you can't predict what variables are going to contribute to your death. Another example of random inconvenience is having to drink for two minutes between every pull to regenerate mana. The only thing that's challenging is your patience.

A lot of people feel this powerful urge to invoke how different Everquest was in relation to WoW Classic, but they never point out that Everquest also happened to be ugly and boring as well as massively inconvenient.

[Osmeric]

Your example is fine, but there's no point in offering examples to counter what is obviously an incorrect statement. .

Except my statement is correct. It's the notion that players are positively influenced by content they will never do (and know they will never do) that is obviously absurd.

"Players hate hard stuff!" is just condescending nonsense.

No, it's a trivial and obvious conclusion from the evidence. If people loved hard stuff so much, they would do it. Participation in hard content is low. Denying this is flat-earth level delusion.

[Raiju]

He a world first raider. Not sure he can objectively comment on whats hard for the majority of the population.

Also maining a holy paladin, the healer that comparatively didn't have any mana problems - the whole reason hc's were difficult when you first dinged was most healers had to be extremely conservative with the packs. The damage was not instant lethal but a healer could not keep up without burning their mana.

[Baconeggcheese]

No, it's a trivial and obvious conclusion from the evidence. If people loved hard stuff so much, they would do it. Participation in hard content is low. Denying this is flat-earth level delusion.

People love commensurate challenge, and obviously the more demanding content is the less people are going to ever be capable of completing it. That's game design 101.