Why do people gem main-stat on timewalking twink gear and not secondaries?

[Rixis]

For feral druid, if you're building a proper set, it's very easy to crit cap, so you gem crit, agi/crit and full agi.

[Themanintobuildafire]

Okay I ran a few and noticed a few things today:

Since the last time BC TW hit the numbers have been squished. We don't hit as hard, they don't hit as hard...so really the average person is doing 2k dps.

Also HFC gear does well now with a couple key legendaries, so really twinking all that gear wasn't necessary unless you don't have heroic/mythic HFC stuff.

I guess the elite raiders must have complained about needing to farm gear for TW top damage...sadly only had 1 mythic raider in any of my runs tonight...

[Rixis]

I ran a bunch with my geared druid and absolutely smashed the shit out of everyone. Closest to me across about 6 instances were a shaman and a brewmaster.

Heroic/Mythic HFC shouldn't matter as it all scales down to the same ilevel.

I just did one on my paladin and the dps were (for overall) 4.2k, 4.2k and 3.8k.

[Themanintobuildafire]

I ran a bunch with my geared druid and absolutely smashed the shit out of everyone. Closest to me across about 6 instances were a shaman and a brewmaster.

Heroic/Mythic HFC shouldn't matter as it all scales down to the same ilevel.

I just did one on my paladin and the dps were (for overall) 4.2k, 4.2k and 3.8k.

The gear itself from HFC heroic/mythic is the same ilvl, but the quality of player is what will really make the difference. I did one run where a heroic geared feral druid was using the BM trinket all wrong and just doing sad dps...he had 4/5 tier from heroic too. I guess it could have been a carry toon, but some of the mythic geared players I get into TW with just really know their class and pretty much are the only ones that have out DPS me as I played a BiS hunter through them.

The really good news is the changes make it much easier to bring a healer into TW...about 4-6 months ago when people were getting 1 shot it really wasn't worth it for the stress levels. I plan to run 3 different heals through to get the 500VP for the week.

[Trollfat]

Because BIG NUMBERS.

[judgementofantonidas]

It's been pretty consistent since mop that secondaries are generally worth .75-.80ish of an intellect point.

So why do people use +10 primary stat gems and not +20 secondaries?

>b-b-but level 70, scaling!

Every ability/talent has the same coefficients and stuff even at 70, 80 and 85.

gem specifically to run old content for a normal citadel drop............ yeah. i'll get right on that.

[Deleted]

Because I am cheap, tbc strength gems are easy to make. I want to have a big enough impact to matter when I am dpsing, I would prefer to tank but seen as how shield slam is seemingly useless in TW dungeons, I went arms which is my PVP spec. Still feels good to wreck things with my shadowmourne, sweeping strikes and bladestorm.

[jackofwind]

Twinking for timewalking is such a stupidly monumental waste of time that I don't know why anyone would bother to do it.

[Deleted]

Twinking for timewalking is such a stupidly monumental waste of time that I don't know why anyone would bother to do it.

So is your forum post, but I suppose we all have our own forms of entertainment. Seeing as the difference is often between doing 3-4k DPS vs 9-12k dps. It does show, it speeds things along nicely. Personally I see more point in twinking for TW than doing LFR in its current state or pet battles, but amazingly people seem to have differing opinions on things.

[Dracodraco]

It's been pretty consistent since mop that secondaries are generally worth .75-.80ish of an intellect point.

So why do people use +10 primary stat gems and not +20 secondaries?

>b-b-but level 70, scaling!

Every ability/talent has the same coefficients and stuff even at 70, 80 and 85.

Scaling is the same. Issue is that the gems also scale with the gear level. In TBC/WOTLK/Cata we had actual main-stat gems that were competitive with secondaries, which means when gems scale down, they win. We don't now (only old-world gems has mainstat).
So a comparison would be:
WOD: We have 75 mastery/multistrike/crit gems, and 10 agility gems. at a 7.5:1 ratio, yes, the secondary wins out hands down.
Cata, WOTLK, TBC timewalking: We have 20 Mastery/Multistrike/Crit gems, and 10 agility gems. At a 2:1 ratio, a lot of classes will prefer mainstats because the gap is much closer.

This is why we don't use the mainstat gems now, and we do in old content. Scaling remains the same. Gems change.

[Wilderness]

So is your forum post, but I suppose we all have our own forms of entertainment. Seeing as the difference is often between doing 3-4k DPS vs 9-12k dps. It does show, it speeds things along nicely. Personally I see more point in twinking for TW than doing LFR in its current state or pet battles, but amazingly people seem to have differing opinions on things.

To be fair though, the vast majority of that difference in that dps is people equipping old legendaries, better set bonuses, etc. Its not from gemming 10 int vs 20 crit. Re-gemming and re-enchanting that old gear which probably has main stat gems or whatever is hardly necessary.

[Rixis]

I'd say that was probably wrong. As feral my highest damage is rake, auto attacks and swipe, with the blademaster trinket and legendary cloak being further down.

I'm sure those items help, but my hitting my 52% crit and then stacking agility it sure helping my actual hits do some ruddy good damage. Only set bonus I have is tier 14 (for legendary meta gem in helm) giving swipe/mangle more damage after omen of clarity procs.

It all adds up, when I'm doing 50%+ of the entire groups damage, it can't be as simple as I used the legendary cloak and they didn't.

Hell, if you have the gear sitting about, why not gem it to be useful. I don't see the point in half arsing it if I'm gonna do it.

[Deleted]

gem specifically to run old content for a normal citadel drop............ yeah. i'll get right on that.

twinking is supposed to be for fun genius.

You really think I'd spend hours farming gear and gems to make my 1 hour bonus roll +500vp errands 30-40 minutes instead?

[Faesroll]

elitism in timewalking, lol

[Shawry]

People complain there is no content and nothing to do with their time, then laugh at spending a few hours twinking for Timewalking.
It's something to do. It can all be done solo. It smooths the pug runs 1000%.

[Themanintobuildafire]

People complain there is no content and nothing to do with their time, then laugh at spending a few hours twinking for Timewalking.
It's something to do. It can all be done solo. It smooths the pug runs 1000%.

So true.

I was bored and read some threads about BiS for timewalking. That got me really excited as I had something I could realistically farm. On my main I ready had the cloak so it was just a matter of hitting ToES a few times so I could get the heroic helm for the gem.

I found it actually more fun to get the BiS than timewalking actually is.

I play a hunter, so for my 2x 2pc set I went with 2x focus and 15% chim damage. So many packs in timewalking, so instead of wasting focus on AS, I use it on barrage and chim.

To the guy saying its about the normal chest: not for me. That is rubbish. I like the extra coin and 500VP, but really I want to see the mount drop and the faster I clear a dungeon, the more chances I have to see it drop...

EDIT: Forgot I have SM on my DK so I tank in a dps setup with nearly BiS...I don't raid with this char so no chance at the good trinkets from HFC...however, I was top dps as tank in all the runs I did for BC tw dungeons this past week. I think he tops at at 7-8k dps...and I wasn't fully utilizing him on big pulls with the mass grip either! If I was an expert DK I could prob get up to 10k dps...

[Bodom]

Twinking for timewalking is such a stupidly monumental waste of time that I don't know why anyone would bother to do it.

Twinking for timewalking allowed me to farm the Infinite Timereaver probably twice as fast, as well as finishing the quests twice as fast too of course. Just picking up old tiers with lots of sockets from old JP/VP vendors made a huge difference for all the classes I've "twinked" so far.

[judgementofantonidas]

twinking is supposed to be for fun genius.

You really think I'd spend hours farming gear and gems to make my 1 hour bonus roll +500vp errands 30-40 minutes instead?

twinking is for morons who want to find a way to skirt the normal system.

Infracted

[LateralusGT]

I enjoy twinking for timewalking, not sure what all the fuss is about. Anyways back to the topic with gems. I posted this earlier in the ret forum, so I'm just gonna copy and paste it here since it has to do with gems for timewalking. According to my math (assuming stat weights are the same in timewalking), the OP is right, secondary stats or hybrid gems have the potential to be better than the primary stat gems (depending on class and stat weights). The following applies to ret pallies:

"So I was thinking about this and was wondering if the hybrid gems would do better than the straight up strength ones. Now I skipped both cata and mop so I came back from Wrath after the stat squish and from what I read the secondary stats are now more powerful than what they were in cata and mop but correct me if I am wrong. Using stat weights from two sources (however both take T18 into account so it might not be accurate?):
Ask Mr Robot
Str=1, Mastery=.8, Haste=.76, Crit=.75
So a red bold gem is 10 points so to speak
An orange str/mastery gem is (5+(10*.8))= 13 points or str/crit gem (5+(10*.75))=12.5 points

Someone else on this forum posted stat weights, Im using the ones for picking final verdict but also T18 so it might not work as good
Str=9.53, Mastery=6.45, Haste=4, Crit=5.31
So a red bold gem is 90.53 points so to speak
An orange str/haste gem is ((5*9.53)+(10*4))=87.65 so in this case 10 str is better if using stat weights above.

So what are you guys thoughts? I am just wondering what the stat weights are best to use for timewalking situations (non T18 or perhaps other Tier sets as mentioned in previous posts)"

[fiestatastic]

you guys are way overthinking this. The gear doesn't make that much of a difference, the dps you are seeing in those that do 4k are poor button pushers. I did above 10k (usually 12-13) every time on my pvp and baleful geared garbage hunter with no sockets ... the same as what a hunter in here who twinked out mentioned doing.

Pressing buttons is more important than gear.

I've also forgotten to swap gear sets on my mage before and used just WoD raid gear instead of MoP legendaries, tarecgosa, SoO gear, etc, and didn't even notice. I probably did 1k less, but wouldn't know for sure since I didn't notice I derped on swapping until I'd finished all I needed for the quest.