Occupation on government issued ID-s

[Khazaad]

Background:
I work with a lot of Italian people. Part of my work with them involves taking info off of their government issued ID's (for our US forum friends, in EU it's obligatory to own an ID, and you're obligated to present it in variety of interactions with police/banks/travel agencies etc) in order to register their stay in my country with government officials.

What always surprised me was the fact their government issued ID's have persons profession written on it.

In my opinion that is, least to say, a bit off, since you're obliged to present it to police/government officials on demand, and it's quite realistic that, for example, a bricklayer would, under same circumstances, be treated differently then a surgeon or a judge.

Socioeconomic discrimination is, at least in Europe, much more real than racial or religious one, and this institutionalises it. And yet we're up each others throats about former, while we rarely discuss the latter.

Opinions?

[Revi]

I didn't know they had that anywhere... Not a fan, the preferential treatment is exactly what came to mind when I read the title.

[Khazaad]

I wasn't aware of this.

Yes, above a certain varying age (in my country 16), if a police officer stops you and asks for an ID, without given reason, and you're not able to provide one, you're fined.

[nextormento]

We used to have civil status (married, single) in our old ones. But similar concerns got that removed.
Not sure why it's taking so long for Italy to phase the paper ID cards, but the new electronic ones don't appear to have the profession field.

[Chetnik]

Seeing as how someone has posted that the Italian government has made new IDs that don't have that, I wonder what professions you're seeing. If I was a judge or a surgeon, I'd want to keep the old one that had the profession on it, but if I was a minimum wage worker, I'd probably go for the new one.

Also, out of curiosity, where are you that you work with so many Italians if you're not in Italy? The only place I know of with a very significant enclave of Italians is Lugano (well all of Ticino really).

[Khazaad]

Also, out of curiosity, where are you that you work with so many Italians if you're not in Italy? The only place I know of with a very significant enclave of Italians is Lugano (well all of Ticino really).

Croatia. I work with loads of Italian tourists. Also, by your wildly inappropriate nick if I may say so, I supposed you're Serbian, not Italian. How come you're so versed in Italian population in EU?

What the actual blueberry fuck muffins is this shit? O.o What country?

Croatia. But that's normal for every EU country AFAIK. You can't even withdraw cash from the bank or sign up for membership in the gym without one. Really, we consider it as normal. Maybe that's why we have almost no cases of identity theft....

We used to have civil status (married, single) in our old ones. But similar concerns got that removed.
Not sure why it's taking so long for Italy to phase the paper ID cards, but the new electronic ones don't appear to have the profession field.

I wasn't aware of the new ones. Usually when old ones get phased out you're not required to swap them until old ones expiration date. I guess the issue will solve itself in few years then and my thread is pointless.
Still, hypotetically, we can discuss it...

[Deleted]

I don't think profession on your ID is a good idea since jobs aren't as secure as they used to be, especially if you aren't highly professional.
Also, I don't know what the benefits of having ppls professions on their IDs are.

On a side note, in germany you do not need to have your ID on you at all times. But if the police stops you and you can't prove info about your person, they may choose to detain you for identification purposes.

[Khazaad]

It sure as hell isn't normal in Finland.

Well, that's why I put in the ''AFAIK'' disclamer. But anyways, it's like that in majority of europe, and I for one see nothing wrong with it.

[nextormento]

It sure as hell isn't normal in Finland.

We have the same thing over here -Spain- since last year. The fines, I mean.
Though, it's possible they'll repel that piece of legislation.
But, fines or not, you were always required to have one. But you could leave it at home.

[Khazaad]

Kinda police state-ish if you ask me.

I can see your point, but I don't agree. It mainly serves the purpose of getting your fingerprints into the register, and being able to prove your identity when involving personal monetary transactions and subscriptions. Police checks are done mainly to identify persons present at a given location at a given time so they can narrow down the list of suspects/witnesses in case of crime. I guess in the US/UK the network of CTC surveillance/facial recognition programs serves the same purpose. In other words, if you're not up to some shady business you get no harm, and get some benefits in regards to identity security.

[nextormento]

Well, that's why I put in the ''AFAIK'' disclamer. But anyways, it's like that in majority of europe, and I for one see nothing wrong with it.

It's a bit of a mix across Europe.
Red: national ID required
Yellow: some ID required
Green: optional.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

In Germany, citizens have to carry an ID card, but permanent resident foreign nationals do not.

[nextormento]

Getting fined for not remembering to carry a piece of paper/plastic with you seems kinda excessive.

It's the only way to catch the bad guys. Terrorists don't carry national ID!
/s

I'm more than OK with a mandatory ID. But I guess that's because we've always had it since the Franco dictatorship.
But it costs 10 euros every 10 years; and I'm not that into having to pay for our right to, for instance, vote.
The fines are just Orwellian.

[Annoying]

I wonder what they put on it for people who work in sensitive fields. Like "Oh, hello Mr Whatever, I see that you're a member of the Secret Service, would you like some extra roofies in your drink today?"

[Khazaad]

I'm sensing a pattern with the countries that require ID.

Being predominantly entry points into a Shengen zone?

It's the only way to catch the bad guys. Terrorists don't carry national ID!
/s

I'm more than OK with a mandatory ID. But I guess that's because we've always had it since the Franco dictatorship.
But it costs 10 euros every 10 years; and I'm not that into having to pay for our right to, for instance, vote.
The fines are just Orwellian.

1 euro per year and having to pull the peace of plastic from my wallet on demand VS being CCTV-d 24/7? Yeah, I'd take it any time of a day.


Anyway, the thread derailed a bit, but I'm fine with discussing ID necessity as opposed to occupation being on it, since we more or less concluded that aspect of it is unnecesary and potentialy harmful.

I wonder what they put on it for people who work in sensitive fields. Like "Oh, hello Mr Whatever, I see that you're a member of the Secret Service, would you like some extra roofies in your drink today?"

My wager would be they put something along the lines of a ''government official''.

[nextormento]

1 euro per year and having to pull the peace of plastic from my wallet on demand VS being CCTV-d 24/7? Yeah, I'd take it any time of a day.

That trade off hardly exists. We are monitored.
I know it's cheap. I certainly don¡'t lose much sleep over it. But it doesn't detract from the principle: they're charging for my rights. And effectively making it so not every citizen has equal access to their rights. If we the people, the state, want to have mandatory ID, we should provide the means to make it free for everyone through taxation.

On fining, I'll elaborate:
Our national ID's are linked to our fingerprints. And every police department has access to the nation-wide database. If law enforcement has sufficient suspicion against you, and you're not carrying it, they could detain you and wait for a family member or friend to bring it, or run the fingerprints and identify you. This has been the case up til last year.
Besides, if they can fine you without carrying, it's because they can effectively identify you without carrying.
Fining citizens for not carrying the ID card is just a means to collect funds.

[Felya]

Yes, above a certain varying age (in my country 16), if a police officer stops you and asks for an ID, without given reason, and you're not able to provide one, you're fined.

Who do they fine? As in, without ID, you can just say you are Donald Duck...

[Khazaad]

That trade off hardly exists. We are monitored.
I know it's cheap. I certainly don¡'t lose much sleep over it. But it doesn't detract from the principle: they're charging for my rights. And effectively making it so not every citizen has equal access to their rights. If we the people, the state, want to have mandatory ID, we should provide the means to make it free for everyone through taxation.

On fining, I'll elaborate:
Our national ID's are linked to our fingerprints. And every police department has access to the nation-wide database. If law enforcement has sufficient suspicion against you, and you're not carrying it, they could detain you and wait for a family member or friend to bring it, or run the fingerprints and identify you. This has been the case up til last year.
Besides, if they can fine you without carrying, it's because they can effectively identify you without carrying.
Fining citizens for not carrying the ID card is just a means to collect funds.

We certainly ain't monitored where I live. And besides the point, I'd alwais take the obligation of carrying one more piece of plastic in my wallet VS a chance of being detained. As in, pulling a piece of plastic wins over spending a night in detention.

Who do they fine? As in, without ID, you can just say you are Donald Duck...

You need to provide name, birth date, adress and SSN (or rather it's EU equivalence) verbatum, or else you're subject to being detained. Really, just the sort of info anyone knows about itself, but noone else would know it all...

*edit*

Who do they fine? As in, without ID, you can just say you are Donald Duck...

Who does vote? Without ID they can just say it was Felya.