mage utility

[hairyman]

I am quite excited for the changes for mages in legion, however I feel mages have lost one thing I believe is vital part of them, utility. In vannila wow mages were one of the most useful class in the game for instance: creating portals for other players, providing food for raid mates and useful crowd control. This is my opinion and I am very curious what you guys think.

[Elegiac]

We still have portals and food, and crowd control hasn't mattered in instanced content in a big way since Cataclysm. Our 'utility', sans Time Warp, has been our ability to fudge mechanics through thinks like Blink, Slow Fall, Greater Invisiblity, etc.

Not that it really helps since we need at least one spec to have top tier DPS to guarantee a raid spot, it seems.

[Pua]

Haha, "mages don't have utility".

That gave me a laugh.

As if having consistently more utility than every other class, while equally consistently being the top DPS class for every encounter, wasn't enough... Mages are also consistently mind-numbingly easy to get results with.

[Elegiac]

Haha, "mages don't have utility".

That gave me a laugh.

As if having consistently more utility than every other class, while equally consistently being the top DPS class for every encounter wasn't enough.

You're aware that being high to top DPS is necessary considering our -lack- of raid-wide utility, yes?

Or do I need to remind you of what happened in Mists when mages did not have a high level of DPS, i.e. Sunwell 2.0.

[Pua]

You're aware that being high to top DPS is necessary considering our -lack- of raid-wide utility, yes?

Or do I need to remind you of what happened in Mists when mages did not have a high level of DPS, i.e. Sunwell 2.0.

Sorry, where were mages benched during Mists?

This should be good.

[Elegiac]

Sorry, where were mages benched during Mists?

This should be good.

You clearly do not recall 5.2 and the attempts to 'balance' the class that necessitated a substantial buff to the Mage Bomb spells.

[pyrostorm9001]

What utility have Mages lost from live to Legion? Creating portals for other players, providing food for raid mates and useful crowd control is still a thing is it not?

I strongly feel that buff utility should be provided by specs (not class) that fulfill a healing role. With tanking specs providing debuff utility. With CC utility being provided by the damage dealers. For the most part this is how it is. So what sort of utility are you looking for?

[Polarthief]

Mages could use maybe 1 more fun utility spell, but we're pretty okay all things considered.

Sorry, where were mages benched during Mists?

This should be good.

You clearly do not recall 5.2 and the attempts to 'balance' the class that necessitated a substantial buff to the Mage Bomb spells.

Get rekt, nerd.

PS: There's no need to have a class-bashing attitude here, Avie.

What utility have Mages lost from live to Legion? Creating portals for other players, providing food for raid mates and useful crowd control is still a thing is it not?

I believe OP is referring to "the good ol' days", but everyone's lost their "utility" due to homogenization. The only truly unique thing still around to my immediate knowledge is Shamans getting a freebie extra life since that doesn't count as a battle rez (IIRC).

[Deleted]

Rofl. Arcane is straight OP in Legion when it comes to utility. 2x ice blocks, greater invis, evocation invulnerability.

[Deleted]

Rofl. Arcane is straight OP in Legion when it comes to utility. 2x ice blocks, greater invis, evocation invulnerability.

Depends what you class as 'utility'. Those are all abilities we can use to cheese mechanics, but we don't have the mobility of Hunters, or the insane (imo best utility in the game) add control of Death Knights (Death Grip is just so good, let alone Gorefiend's). We are going to be really, really good at soaking mechanics, but that's it. This also happens to be something that many other classes can do (rogues/paladins/shadow priests (dispersion isn't as good as it used to be, but doesn't silence them anymore)/death knights (purgatory)) so its not unique, we just do it the best.

I think it will continue to be how it is now, Mages are going to be good, but we wont have anything unique that guarantees us a raid spot, and that is good.

[Deleted]

Depends what you class as 'utility'. Those are all abilities we can use to cheese mechanics, but we don't have the mobility of Hunters, or the insane (imo best utility in the game) add control of Death Knights (Death Grip is just so good, let alone Gorefiend's). We are going to be really, really good at soaking mechanics, but that's it. This also happens to be something that many other classes can do (rogues/paladins/shadow priests (dispersion isn't as good as it used to be, but doesn't silence them anymore)/death knights (purgatory)) so its not unique, we just do it the best.

I think it will continue to be how it is now, Mages are going to be good, but we wont have anything unique that guarantees us a raid spot, and that is good.

3 immunities, 1 60% dmg reduction, 2x blink with no GCD, usable while casting + alter time, 3x ice floes. Arcane is OP. Unless arcane does really sub par damage, we will have guaranteed raid spots. And DK dps won't have death grip anymore, so they won't even have a raid spot to compete with most likely.

[Socialhealer]

You're aware that being high to top DPS is necessary considering our -lack- of raid-wide utility, yes?

Or do I need to remind you of what happened in Mists when mages did not have a high level of DPS, i.e. Sunwell 2.0.

so ele shamans what utility are they bringing to require such fucking awful dps and no burst?

oh wait your arguement is straight up bullshit and mages are hilariously OP and broken like warlocks in mists, don't bring up utility blizzard just doesn't balance their game.

[Elegiac]

3 immunities, 1 60% dmg reduction, 2x blink with no GCD, usable while casting + alter time, 3x ice floes. Arcane is OP. Unless arcane does really sub par damage, we will have guaranteed raid spots. And DK dps won't have death grip anymore, so they won't even have a raid spot to compete with most likely.

Once again, the ability to cheese mechanics does not guarantee raid spots.

Also, listing the Evocation immunity as 'OP' is fairly ridiculous because using it to cheese a mechanic would absolutely cripple Arcane's DPS.

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so ele shamans what utility are they bringing to require such fucking awful dps and no burst?

The fact they're a hybrid class.

And fun fact: you can have balance, or you can have class identity. Pick one.

[Pua]

You clearly do not recall 5.2 and the attempts to 'balance' the class that necessitated a substantial buff to the Mage Bomb spells.

5.2, the Throne of Thunder you mean? When mages had their DPS buffed despite being top-of-the-shop on all but (maybe) two encounters, and that "wasn't where Blizzard want[ed] them"?

Yes, I recall.

Mage is one of Blizzard's pet classes. They're pretty much always stronger than every other class and, when they're not, "tuning" is quickly deployed to fix it.

[Elegiac]

5.2, the Throne of Thunder you mean? When mages had their DPS buffed despite being top-of-the-shop on all but (maybe) two encounters, and that "wasn't where Blizzard want[ed] them"?

Yes, I recall.

Clearly not very well.

Mage is one of Blizzard's pet classes. They're pretty much always stronger than every other class and, when they're not, "tuning" is quickly deployed to fix it.

Someone's mad.

[Socialhealer]

The fact they're a hybrid class.

And fun fact: you can have balance, or you can have class identity. Pick one.

so shamans have class identity and mages don't? i bet you're the kind of guy who thinks you're an amazing player for just rolling a mage aren't you, if they made mages bad like a lot of hybrids are you'd just quit because you'd be so terrible you wouldn't be worth the raid spot.

[Polarthief]

Rofl. Arcane is straight OP in Legion when it comes to utility. 2x ice blocks, greater invis, evocation invulnerability.

Defensives aren't utility and Evocation lost its immunity/explosion btw (at least I remember hearing that from someone, I think Kuni? The trait wasn't updated yet)

3 immunities, 2x blink with no GCD, usable while casting + alter time

Um... you're mixing talents of the same tier. You cannot take Shimmer (2x Blink no GCD) and Cold Snap (2x Ice Block). Also, the Alter Time is only movement-based, so you only have 1 Blink and 1 immunity and you can pick a second Blink+no GCD, second immunity+heal during, or second life.

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so ele shamans what utility are they bringing to require such fucking awful dps and no burst?

oh wait your arguement is straight up bullshit and mages are hilariously OP and broken like warlocks in mists, don't bring up utility blizzard just doesn't balance their game.

Found the class-basher.

[Pua]

Clearly not very well.

In what way am I recollecting it badly? What needs corrected about mages being buffed during the early Throne of Thunder?

Someone's mad.

Not really. If I were mad, I'd level my mage to 100 and play it. I just think it's hysterical when mages complain, despite always being in the top three DPS every tier and having utility other classes dream about. Who else gets expansion level class design for a patch?

That's right, nobody.

[Elegiac]

so shamans have class identity and mages don't? i bet you're the kind of guy who thinks you're an amazing player for just rolling a mage aren't you, if they made mages bad like a lot of hybrids are you'd just quit because you'd be so terrible you wouldn't be worth the raid spot.

Conflating the two points won't do any favors. Hybrids have significantly more betting power when it comes to raid spots by virtue of the fact they can switch to an offspec; with pures, you get damage or damage. They either have to bring high utility or high damage to compensate.

And no, I'm referencing the fact that no class will ever be exactly equal to another unless they are the same class.

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In what way am I recollecting it badly? What needs corrected about mages being buffed during the early Throne of Thunder?

The fact it was extremely necessary.

Not really. If I were mad, I'd level my mage to 100 and play it. I just think it's hysterical when mages complain, despite always being in the top three DPS every tier and having utility other classes dream about. Who else gets expansion level class design for a patch?

Warlocks. Mages have yet to recieve remotely anything similar.

If you aren't a mage I suggest finding another subforum to whine in, mate.

[Pua]

The fact it was extremely necessary.

Only if you feel mages should never, under any circumstances, be anything other than first DPS on any encounter, no matter which it is. If I recall correctly, they were buffed at a point when a mage spec was top DPS on all but three encounters.

Warlocks. Mages have yet to recieve remotely anything similar.

What exactly are you referencing? I was referencing the completely unnecessary Frost rework during Mists, when they got an entirely new mastery; the type of design work that's "expansion level"... Unless, of course, you're a mage.