Demonic Servitude

[Esinar]

In WoD I've been pretty indifferent about Demonic Servitude. It wasn't exactly interesting, but it didn't really matter since it was hardly ever used for DPS in raiding apart from them few months in BRF when Demon Bolt got a nerf.

After seeing the Warlock changes in Legion though, I've really grown to hate it. I just don't think it has a place anymore. I look at it and all I can see is a something that's taking up a talent slot.

Like people have mentioned; it's boring and disengaging, it removes our ONLY cooldown, it doesn't work with the sacrifice talent, it removes the fantasy of "each spec having one specificly-themed pet" which was mentioned at Blizzcon, thematically it doesn't make much sense for Affliction and Destruction anyway, it's thematically okay for Demo but removes the spec-specific Felguard so again doesn't make much sense and finally... it has no niche.

The game has come a long way to cater to the people that don't want to push themselves or take part in any competitive environment but a talent being purposefully included just for the lazy people that CBA to manage an extra button or two doesn't sit well for me.

If Demonic Servitude stays for that reason though, I'd only accept it if it was the worst talent in any kind of competitive gameplay. Let the people that want to be lazy have their exciting demon (that's not so exciting now that its permanent) and I'll be happy with choosing an interactive talent that makes me feel like I have to actually try in order to yield the results I see.

[warzerotwo]

In WoD I've been pretty indifferent about Demonic Servitude. It wasn't exactly interesting, but it didn't really matter since it was hardly ever used for DPS in raiding apart from them few months in BRF when Demon Bolt got a nerf.

After seeing the Warlock changes in Legion though, I've really grown to hate it. I just don't think it has a place anymore. I look at it and all I can see is a something that's taking up a talent slot.

Like people have mentioned; it's boring and disengaging, it removes our ONLY cooldown, it doesn't work with the sacrifice talent, it removes the fantasy of "each spec having one specificly-themed pet" which was mentioned at Blizzcon, thematically it doesn't make much sense for Affliction and Destruction anyway, it's thematically okay for Demo but removes the spec-specific Felguard so again doesn't make much sense and finally... it has no niche.

The game has come a long way to cater to the people that don't want to push themselves or take part in any competitive environment but a talent being purposefully included just for the lazy people that CBA to manage an extra button or two doesn't sit well for me.

If Demonic Servitude stays for that reason though, I'd only accept it if it was the worst talent in any kind of competitive gameplay. Let the people that want to be lazy have their exciting demon (that's not so exciting now that its permanent) and I'll be happy with choosing an interactive talent that makes me feel like I have to actually try in order to yield the results I see.

How's about you pick one of the other 'exciting' talents and quit whining instead?

[Esinar]

How's about you pick one of the other 'exciting' talents and quit whining instead?

lol - ironically it's you that's whining at me after I said something you didn't like. I was simply stating my opinion, including my reasoning to back that opinion up.

[Rhaxus]

they should just switch the talent into a low talent tier and readjust their damage- it's bad enough that they have to be our dps cooldown, since i never felt like they were suited for that at all

[Kyoda]

Just a question, does Demonic Servitude works with Grimoire of Service by having Grimoire: Doomguard/Infernal?

[Esinar]

Just a question, does Demonic Servitude works with Grimoire of Service by having Grimoire: Doomguard/Infernal?

Yeah it does, and I've also just realised that seems ludicrously OP'd once these new buffs take effect lol

[Deleted]

Just a question, does Demonic Servitude works with Grimoire of Service by having Grimoire: Doomguard/Infernal?

Yes it does. You can currently have 2 doomguards/infernals out at the same time.

How's about you pick one of the other 'exciting' talents and quit whining instead?

Cancerous behavior, I'd wish your parents could press a reset button on your existence. Probably going to get infracted for this but I do feel your ignorant child-like behavior needs a slap right across the face.

[High-Chief Greathoof]

At this point, I am just glad the "empowered" Demon versions of each base Demon is a Glyph that can be applied on the SPECIFIC summon spell (not the all-inclusive Summon Demon spell). Now I can have the Voidlord and company without even Talenting for it.

[Thrif]

Having a permanent doomguard/infernal was cool for 5 mins but the talent is really boring.

This is a perfect summary of the situation. Yes, having permanent doomguards and infernals sounds and looks cool for a while when you've just hit 100, but really, aside from that, this talent is nothing but problem.

They're very boring, they remove a damage cooldown, they nullify one of the big selling points of demonology (having felguard as a stronger pet), etc...

So while I'm glad to have tried it out for one exp, because yeah it was pretty fun, I really wish that they removed that talent for legion. Or at least update it a bit, make them more interesting, give demonology its own permanent version of a pit lord etc.

[Kyoda]

Yeah it does, and I've also just realised that seems ludicrously OP'd once these new buffs take effect lol

So, why the hell remove it? LOL!

[Bridius]

Does Demonic Servitude really remove the 3 min Doomguard cooldown? The passive would be fine as long as we keep the 3 min summon along with it.

[volrat]

Synergy, as long as i don't like it, is not a passive talent, but the opposite, to make it it usefull and justify your choice you actually have to track it to spend resources/cd (like trinkets) other than that it's a terrible choice...

Still, I do agree with you GoServ is quiet boring and takes out more than it is giving (a dps cd burst, the only one left).

If these demons are improved (DG summoned in vanilla was a force to be rekoned, infernals....meh) with some interesting ability to be used properly, and the cd associated with them won't be taken away, the talent may have a point, but actually it is only used to have the doomguard doing a passive dmg improve you are not caring about, wich, imho, sucks...( the infernal is far from being effective as a tank or aoe dps and is avoided in any gameplay scenario).

[Kyoda]

Does Demonic Servitude really remove the 3 min Doomguard cooldown? The passive would be fine as long as we keep the 3 min summon along with it.

You can get a 2 min CD with Grimoire of Service, but I'm not sure if it's the same from WoD to Legion.

[Keniwa]

So, why the hell remove it? LOL!

Because it doesn't work with that whole "Spec Fantasy" blizzard is trying to do. They want each spec to have 1 unique pet that fits the spec. And this removes that whole "fantasy" same with the sacrifice talent. However I love the sacrifice talent due to managing the pets is a pain with the AI bugging out sometimes.

- - - Updated - - -

Does Demonic Servitude really remove the 3 min Doomguard cooldown? The passive would be fine as long as we keep the 3 min summon along with it.

Yes it does. You are then forced into using Grimoire of Service to get the 2min doomguard cd instead.

Also a whole new problem has arrived.

To Quote the blue in the demonology feedback thread on the front page which I cannot link due to low posts on my end.
- Demonic Servitude isn't used because the Doomguard and Infernal are undertuned right now. That's also contributing to the feeling that Warlocks "don't have a cooldown anymore". You'll find that they've been massively buffed in the next build, in hopes of solving both of those issues.

If they happend to buff this talent so much. People will use it purely for the numbers. And then again remove the whole "spec pet fantasy" they are trying to do.

[Gaidax]

You people really love the buzzwords? First it was "raid tier" then it was "clunky" and now it is "spec fantasy".

Mind telling me what "spec fantasy" means? Because as I see it - everyone is just pulling out this damned buzzword and tries to wrap their own understanding into it and somehow present it as something Blizzard intended.

Just stop it - Blizzard decides what "spec fantasy" is. Just say it plainly - "I don't like Demonic Servitude, because <insert actual reasons here>", no need for bullshit!

Here some examples:

I don't like it because it makes me press less buttons and I love pressing buttons.
I don't like it because I am in love with how Felguard/Imp/Felhunter look and it makes me effectively lose those.
I don't like it because it's not a Pit Lord, Dreadlord or frikkin' Illidan...

[Esinar]

If they happend to buff this talent so much. People will use it purely for the numbers. And then again remove the whole "spec pet fantasy" they are trying to do.

Agreed Keniwa. Despite all the issues with the talent, as a whole has some inherent design problems which are impossible to balance now that Dark Soul is gone...

- Warlocks feels like the don't have a cooldown
- Doomguard is buffed significantly to compensate
- Doomguard is now so powerful that Demonic Servitude is automatically the go-to talent
- Doomguard is now so powerful that Grimoire of Service is automatically the go-to talent
- Blizzard don't like this so can either:
--- 1) Buff the other 2 100 talents, the 2 other Grimoire talents and then rebalance the spec around these
--- 2) Nerf the Doomguard
- Number 2 is easier to do so Doomguard is nerfed to the ground
- And the cycle starts again

- - - Updated - - -

You people really love the buzzwords? First it was "raid tier" then it was "clunky" and now it is "spec fantasy".

Mind telling me what "spec fantasy" means? Because as I see it - everyone is just pulling out this damned buzzword and tries to wrap their own understanding into it and somehow present it as something Blizzard intended.

Just stop it - Blizzard decides what "spec fantasy" is. Just say it plainly - "I don't like Demonic Servitude, because <insert actual reasons here>", no need for bullshit!

Okay since you obviously aren't up to date. Spec fantasy is something that makes each spec feel unique in its theme... a key part of the Legion expansion... making each spec feel unique. At Blizzcon, Blizzard said that each spec was getting their own pet that interacts in some way with their spec... so for example the Felhunter is Affliction's pet as it is a devourer magics and souls - the ability Shadow Bite also increases by 50% for every DoT the Affliction lock has up. It makes the pet feel like it works in unison with the play style of Affliction you see? Doomguard has no interaction whatsoever and has been lazily slumped across all specs for no other reason than to be there as a passive for lazy people.

[Keniwa]

You people really love the buzzwords? First it was "raid tier" then it was "clunky" and now it is "spec fantasy".

Mind telling me what "spec fantasy" means? Because as I see it - everyone is just pulling out this damned buzzword and tries to wrap their own understanding into it and somehow present it as something Blizzard intended.

Just stop it - Blizzard decides what "spec fantasy" is. Just say it plainly - "I don't like Demonic Servitude, because <insert actual reasons here>", no need for bullshit!

Here some examples:

I don't like it because it makes me press less buttons and I love pressing buttons.
I don't like it because I am in love with how Felguard/Imp/Felhunter look and it makes me effectively lose those.
I don't like it because it's not a Pit Lord, Dreadlord or frikkin' Illidan...

Me saying it works against the spec fantasy is not even wrong. Blizzard did specifically say that each warlock spec will have 1 of the pets feel unique to the spec. As I see it the talent doesn't have a place in the talent system if that is how they want to design each spec. What is the point in having all this uniqueness to each pet to just remove it with a talent.

[Gaidax]

Okay since you obviously aren't up to date. Spec fantasy is something that makes each spec feel unique in its theme. At Blizzcon, Blizzard said that each spec was getting their own pet that interacts in some way with their spec... so for example the Felhunter is Affliction's pet as it is a devourer magics and souls - the ability Shadow Bite also increases by 50% for every DoT the Affliction lock has up. It makes the pet feel like it works in unison with the play style of Affliction you see? Doomguard has no interaction whatsoever and has been lazily slumped across all specs for no other reason that to be there as a passive for lazy people.

i am VERY up to date, cupcake. My point is that people heard them say "spec fantasy" (or just "fantasy" actually) a couple of times in Blizzcon and their blog and suddenly everyone and their mothers started pulling out shit out of their asses and claim that "THIS IS THE SPEC FANTASY YO!"

Just like in the example above.

Here is the blog BTW... http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/199...ock-11-10-2015

Show me where Blizzard says even once that "spec fantasy" is for Demonology to run around with Felguard, Affliction with Felhunter and Destruction with Imp.


You can't? Dawww what a pity!

Hell, in the whole blog they did not even say word "Felguard" or "Felhunter" once... and "Imp" was only said in relation to Demonology. They said that mechanically Affliction and Destruction will favor Felhunter and Imp - BUT it is not "spec fantasy" or a mandatory thing you try to make it be.


That's why this:

Because it doesn't work with that whole "Spec Fantasy" blizzard is trying to do. They want each spec to have 1 unique pet that fits the spec.

is. in fact, an utter bullshit, as it has nothing to do with the spec fantasy they clearly shared with us in the blog.

[Keniwa]

Agreed Keniwa. Despite all the issues with the talent, as a whole has some inherent design problems which are impossible to balance now that Dark Soul is gone...

- Warlocks feels like the don't have a cooldown
- Doomguard is buffed significantly to compensate
- Doomguard is now so powerful that Demonic Servitude is automatically the go-to talent
- Doomguard is now so powerful that Grimoire of Service is automatically the go-to talent
- Blizzard don't like this so can either:
--- 1) Buff the other 2 100 talents, the 2 other Grimoire talents and then rebalance the spec around these
--- 2) Nerf the Doomguard
- Number 2 is easier to do so Doomguard is nerfed to the ground
- And the cycle starts again

- - - Updated - - -



Okay since you obviously aren't up to date. Spec fantasy is something that makes each spec feel unique in its theme. At Blizzcon, Blizzard said that each spec was getting their own pet that interacts in some way with their spec... so for example the Felhunter is Affliction's pet as it is a devourer magics and souls - the ability Shadow Bite also increases by 50% for every DoT the Affliction lock has up. It makes the pet feel like it works in unison with the play style of Affliction you see? Doomguard has no interaction whatsoever and has been lazily slumped across all specs for no other reason that to be there as a passive for lazy people.

Thank you. This is exactly how I feel about it. Maybe I could have been more specific in the first post I made.

[Frozenbeef]

Well currently on live the choices for afffliction are either

a. A permanent damage boost and useful utility
b. A situational aoe spell with a 1min cooldown a long cast time and only useful when the stars align
c. Another situational aoe spell, more useful but yet another thing to micro manage. (Why would i need to DOT stuff if i'm currently spamming seed of corruption? )