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  1. #681
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    They said it in MoP as well.
    Prove it. The first known usage of the term "tourist mode" by Blizzard in describing LFR was Ghostcrawler during Blizzcon 2013 for the launch of WOD.

  2. #682
    Deleted
    Because if you honestly think Raiding in this day and age isn't the most fucking casual experience you can ever manifest in WoW, I seriously doubt how you think Mythic raiding is somehow the pinnacle of the game.

  3. #683
    Quote Originally Posted by Aroxisas View Post
    I never said I do LFR or anything about can't controlling myself from doing it, so basically I didn't get your first line about making sense.
    Anyways, my point is gears are not the only incentive people do raid for. A lot of people wanna kill the bosses and know the lore. Since LFR is there, they can do with ease without knowing the fight properly or gearing up or anything at all. If there was no LFR, these very same people would have to run normal, where they would learn the fight, gear up properly etc. It's not that normal is difficult, compared to LFR it is maybe. That is what most of us did during WOTLK and early cataclysm. And it was much more fun than LFR trust me. I know that those people still have the option to do normal and such, but they got divided because of the introduction of LFR which is also affecting normal raiding environment.

    Also, try to get the the integrity point. Raid is not just a zone you go kill get loot and come out, if you think that is raid, then it's probably LFR that makes you think this way. Raid is much more than that, which has traps that you should avoid, mobs that you should think twice before engaging. It should require organized group to defeat the bosses who's supposed to possess extreme level of powers. These are the end game bosses we are talking about, Blackhand, Guldan, Garrosh, Deathwing etc etc .. Is it fun to roflstomp them on LFR ??? Imagine in FF7, if there was a version where you could kill Sephiroth with no skill and effort... would that be fun ? But if there was an option to kill Sephiroth in such way, a number of people would do so and then claim the game to be uninteresting. Who would you blame in this kind of situation ? Players that chose the easy way or the developer for giving an easy option ? (LFR is not only easy.... it's ridiculously undertuned !)
    Apologies..the line from your post "I know no ones forcing me to do LFR, I can straight do normal/heroic and then Mythic. But having easier difficulty gives a lot of ppl excuses for being lazy and ignoring normal or beyond" makes it sound like you are talking about yourself.

    For the final time 80% of people who do LFR would never step into a normal/heroic/mythic raid...they didn't before it existed, they don't now and they wouldn't if you removed it. So what you are saying is that people who aren't willing to spend 10-15 hours a week don't deserve to see the story apart from on the terms of organised raiders? I disagree and funnily enough so do the developers. You don't get to tell people what their definition of fun is...if they enjoy LFR than that is their business...if you enjoy "real" raiding then that is yours. Their enjoyment does not in any way affect yours other than a perceived "they are getting something that should only be given on my terms and I don't want them to have it"

    I hear time and time again from organised raiders that people who do LFR are beneath contempt because they AFK, have no skills, aren't willing to put in the effort etc etc etc. And yet these are the same people organised raiders claim they want to "step up" to normal raiding. The ilvl and requirements people set for PUGs seems completely at odds with this, as do their opinions of the people who do LFR.

    Accept it, organised raiding is dying...whether it's because Blizzard caused people to leave the game through incompetence, the game is old, people playing the game no longer have the time to commit, the game is not attracting young players who prefer Mobas, the raiding community is elitist and unattractive to a lot of players...take your pick. Organised raiding is becoming a smaller and smaller niche part of the game for numerous reasons and killing LFR will do nothing to save it.

  4. #684
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradyne View Post
    Accept it, organised raiding is dying...whether it's because Blizzard caused people to leave the game through incompetence, the game is old, people playing the game no longer have the time to commit, the game is not attracting young players who prefer Mobas, the raiding community is elitist and unattractive to a lot of players...take your pick. Organised raiding is becoming a smaller and smaller niche part of the game for numerous reasons and killing LFR will do nothing to save it.
    I strongly disagree. When the best gear is available via raiding only the incentive is there to put effort into developing relationships with people in the guild, and participating in the preparation for raiding. When LFR came out, it was raiding easy-mode... No one enchanted, gemmed, flasked, brought buff food...

    This was all content skipped... it hurt professions, it hurt raiding and raiding guilds, it hurt the community in general. Why? Because you could skip all of it and just walk into LFR.. get gear that looks basically indistinguishable from the "best"... and it was all "purples". If colors are meaningless, then why not go back to only blues (mostly) outside of raids? Because they wanted to give the feeling of "accomplishing high end content" to be felt by everyone.

    And in doing so they removed the feeling of accomplishment from ACTUALLY doing the highest content.

    Highest gear doesn't always mean the biggest stats, which was the HUGE draw of CM's and the transmog gear. People flocked to CMs because of the perceived benefit... to get some of the most amazing looking gear in the expansion.

    That USED to be why you raided... the look AND the stats.

    The game is now so far away from that, that there is no NEED for community, teamwork, friends... hell we got bodyguards in WoD and now legion has it too? More and more solo play mechanics designed for an MMO... and you wonder why diehards are leaving in droves?

    This game is getting harder and harder to recognize as WoW.

  5. #685
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I don't believe you. MoP was designed so that LFR would be a progression path for a certain segment of the population. WoD's design changed that; that segment was supposed to be in Normal mode instead.
    How is LFR not a progression path now? It rewards gear suitable enough to get you into normal HFC raiding. It was meant as a stepping stone, not as the end all be all end game for casuals.

    You can casually clear HFC normal even in pugs, even at the beginning of the patch. Don't pretend like you can't without tier sets and trinkets, because you can.

  6. #686
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    How is LFR not a progression path now?
    It doesn't last long enough. They upped the drop rate of LFR in SoO, and also made superior gear available very easily (PvP, Tanaan).
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  7. #687
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Result = many players quitting = less $$$ = bean counters angry.
    Even if we'd for a moment presume that was the case although obviously we have no proof either way - I am no stakeholder in the company so the purely fiscal well being seems rather irrelevant to me. I am personally mostly interested in the resources market.

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