Thorns

[spookterfuge]

I know I saw thorns in the druids spell list (atleast for resto) some time ago, and a pvp talent that replaced thorns, called "prickling thorns" however, that seems to be missing now? why would they remove it? I think even blizzard themselves showcased that thorns was coming back, and that they were proud of that concept

whats your take on thorns?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
edit:

looks like thorns is now a pvp talent, and has been removed baseline

[Glormon]

I can think of a number of abilities that I'd rather have.

[Xandrigity]

Thorns can be a good pvp talent but for pve is kinda worthless

[Drusyn]

I want thorns back for the same reason I want eyes of the beast back, because I liked using the ability. Why does everything have to have a point and purpose?

[Gorgodeus]

Thorns has always been shit. Negligible damage is mainly why.

[Snes]

Thorns has always been shit. Negligible damage is mainly why.

But it doesn't need to be negligible. Numbers aren't set in stone.

A strong lightning shield type of ability that you can throw on tanks while they grab a tonne of mobs has potential to add meaningful contribution to damage.

[Gorgodeus]

But it doesn't need to be negligible. Numbers aren't set in stone.

A strong lightning shield type of ability that you can throw on tanks while they grab a tonne of mobs has potential to add meaningful contribution to damage.

Which is why you will never see it do any significant damage. It would make Druids mandatory if it did much damage, considering it is passive damage.

[Not Againnn]

powershifting over literally one of the entire pvp teirs would be cool.

[Sunfyre]

powershifting over literally one of the entire pvp teirs would be cool.

There's an entire conversation for that.

But yes, Thorns was pretty useless. If you want an ability and not have it actually be useful, just roleplay it, there's no use in Blizzard trying to maintain it.

[Deleted]

I somehow don't have high hopes for druids in Legion. It feels like a 180° degree shift in competence of the class designer, compared to WoD.

So many strange changes, zero structure, just like a huge construction ground with no idea where to take things.

/edit: Powershifting, thorns, resto druid mastery, list goes on. Maybe that goes for all classes and I'm just seeing the weirdness in druids, because that's what I main right now.

[spookterfuge]

there have been a few iterations of thorns - some of them pretty negligible, such as when it scaled off less than 5% of the druids SP, however, the variation that was in legion, for a time, was 50% spellpower to attackers (the baseline version, before it was removed) - I wouldnt call that useless/bad in solo play or pvp, as that damage adds up on attacking NPCs / players who decide to focus you

compare the 50% SP scaling to your average caster spells, which range from 100 - 350% SP - its not too terribly behind the scaling of those spells, and its unavoidable damage to your enemies (assuming they keep attacking you), and its even more effective versus mobs or players that have high attack speeds

the PvP talent version of thorns, however, deals 300% of SP to attackers.. that is far from negligible, as that sort of scaling is equivalent to your run of the mill-caster ability.. assuming that the damage has no ICD, that damage is so strong that it may actually ward people from attacking you for its duration

[Vaalrn]

Powershifting, thorns, resto druid mastery, list goes on. Maybe that goes for all classes and I'm just seeing the weirdness in druids, because that's what I main right now

How does Powershifting effect Resto Druid?

I'll admit that the addition of Thorns is rather odd.The only place I can see it do well is the example that Snes gave. But, if that's the case why have it at all? idk, just seems weird. I also don't like the new Mastery. Seems like it would make the Germination talent mandatory, and I'm not a fan of that gameplay.

[Hottage]

For the same reason that Retribution Aura was removed, passive fire-and-forget damage procs are something Blizzard wasn't happy with design wise.

[Deleted]

How does Powershifting effect Resto Druid?

I was talking about resto druid in specific where? All of the specs, minus moonkin maybe, look really weird on beta. Blizz want to change their annoyingness in pvp but have zero concept to replace it with. Resto druid mastery could even make them more dominant if that is even possible.

- - - Updated - - -

For the same reason that Retribution Aura was removed, passive fire-and-forget damage procs are something Blizzard wasn't happy with design wise.

Yeah I agree, but somehow they seem to want to go back on the stuff that people were comfortable letting go, because as you said they were aged design. Not sure why they suddenly seem like a good idea again.

[Lucrece]

Thorns has always been shit. Negligible damage is mainly why.

In Cataclysm beta throns damage was lightning shield on steroids. It ate up rogues and warriors and hunters.

Unfortunately, in true Blizzard fashion, they don't like anything that specifically punishes rogues so just like hunter's mark and flare they nerfed it into uselessness.

[Deleted]

Let's look at it from a toolkit perspective. What roles could thorns fulfill?
- Negligible damage. That's what it has historically been and why it was pruned in the first place.#
- Enough damage to make dps think about attacking the druid. That's what I think they are going for. Which further enforces druid as the healer you can not attack. It's another spell to buy them time, and fills the gap between their CC DRs, their leaps, etc. After one hour of chasing you finally caught up to them and now you are too low to attack them through thorns.
- Absurd damage. Rogues solo themselves. I didn't play cata beta, but it doesn't seem to have made it to live servers. For good reason.

Damage shields are one of the most antifun mechanics I can think of. They are passive, they don't feel good using, they feel super frustrating playing against... Is there any communication on the direction for druids? This is getting really really frustrating.

[Raugnaut]

Which is why you will never see it do any significant damage. It would make Druids mandatory if it did much damage, considering it is passive damage.

In Cata, it did a TON of damage, lasted for 20 seconds, and had a 45 second CD (20 second glyph). It did enough damage that a rogue would kill themselves before they killed you, no healing, no damage to the rogue. On PvE encounters, as a bear tank, it was generally number two in damage on trash pulls of my overall damage done. It was not mandatory to bring druids for thorns (Although Boomkin/Ferals did, as it was generally a damage gain)

[Azutael]

Thorns coming back made me smile, until I saw it was only cast able on yourself.
At which point it isn't really useful anymore, at least not as a resto druid.

I'd like to have hibernate back, I loved hibernate.

[Juvencus]

For the same reason that Retribution Aura was removed, passive fire-and-forget damage procs are something Blizzard wasn't happy with design wise.

With the exception of Frost death knights and Demon Hunters I assume?