Is Our Druid Playing Wrong?

[Deleted]

Hi, i'm from a mythic guild working on progression though HFC. Stuck at tyrant ATM.

Ive been looking through some logs and noticed that our Druid (resto) is casting a hell of a lot of wrath.

I'm pretty sure this isnt the correct play be he says he wastes mana otherwise.

I'm not experienced in playing Druid so just came here to ask if hes playing wrong by doing this, or if hes doing anything else wrong.

Thanks in advance

[Jarob22]

Hi, i'm from a mythic guild working on progression though HFC. Stuck at tyrant ATM.

Ive been looking through some logs and noticed that our Druid (resto) is casting a hell of a lot of wrath.

I'm pretty sure this isnt the correct play be he says he wastes mana otherwise.

I'm not experienced in playing Druid so just came here to ask if hes playing wrong by doing this, or if hes doing anything else wrong.

Thanks in advance

Logs are here: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...38a2H#fight=26

He's playing DoC meaning that wraths heal others (and do more damage). However if you have a resto druid who seems to be casting wrath 25% of casts (he has ~50 casts out of 191, meaning more than 25% of his time is spent doing that as it has a cast time) you might want to question if the 4th healer is necessary and just go down to 3.

[Nythiz]

Hi, i'm from a mythic guild working on progression though HFC. Stuck at tyrant ATM.

Ive been looking through some logs and noticed that our Druid (resto) is casting a hell of a lot of wrath.

I'm pretty sure this isnt the correct play be he says he wastes mana otherwise.

I'm not experienced in playing Druid so just came here to ask if hes playing wrong by doing this, or if hes doing anything else wrong.

Thanks in advance

Logs are here: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...38a2H#fight=26

I'm not a full blown expert on log reviews, nor have I done Velhari on Mythic yet so I don't exactly know the ins and outs of this fight.
My guild is working on it, but I'm sitting out a bit due to RL time obstruction.

A druid can spam wrath with Dream of Cenarius (resto talent; converts 150% of wrath damage done to healing), but it's generally not considered proper healing. Unless a fight has a phase that's extremely lenient on healing and then becomes really tough. Velhari might be such a fight, but I leave that up to your judgement.
From what I can see he mostly seems to be spamming wrath in phase 1 with a few heals in between. If phase 1 is easy enough for you healers to handle than this is a valid way of healing. He seems to mostly drop the wrath casting in phase 2 and 3 for actual healing.

Outside of the wrath spam though, I see a lot of things that could easily improve his throughput should that be an issue.

- Harmony uptime could be better. It's about 86%, which isn't awful, but at this level should really be between 95%-100%.
- Lifebloom uptime is very low. It's up 48% of the time; and there is very little reason not to have this up. Also makes Moment of Clarity a bit useless.
- Wild Mushroom uptime is really low.
- Not very sold on the rejuvs either

He seems to be favoring a style of high Wild Growth uptime combined with Wrath (mana free) casts with Dream of Cenarius to not run OOM too fast.

I'm sure others with more experience in this fight can provide better answers for this, but this seems like a more rejuvination raid coverage style of healing (drop a few WGs in phase 1 and you'll still be good for the difficult part of the fight !) would be a better option. That way you also get an additional strong cooldown like Nature's Vigil in return that is really solid for fights like Velhari in the later 2 phases where healing becomes clutch.

I guess others can pitch in with more experience on mythic Tyrant.

Kind Regards,
Horde Druid on EU-Defias Brotherhood :>

- - - Updated - - -

He's playing DoC meaning that wraths heal others (and do more damage). However if you have a resto druid who seems to be casting wrath 25% of casts (he has ~50 casts out of 191, meaning more than 25% of his time is spent doing that as it has a cast time) you might want to question if the 4th healer is necessary and just go down to 3.

This is a very valid concern. Especially for Velhari where the balance between having enough healing for the last 2 phases and having more dps to burn through it quicker can be just the thing you need.

That said, In the logs it mostly showing him casting Wrath during phase 1. So if healing is more than sufficient there it's not a massive massive issue.
Then again, Dream of Cenarius (the talent) is a strong contender with both Heart of the Wild and Nature's Vigil which are both excellent throughput cooldowns.
By going for DoC he's basically semi-screwing his own output over in the later part of the fight. Instead of spamming wrath, because apparently there is no need for more healing, he could also just float some Rejuvinations and make better use of his Moment of Clarity talent (WHICH HE DEFINITELY IS NOT !) to do enough healing yet still sustain high mana for P2 and P3.

[Deleted]

I stopped playing just before HFC, but my style was (mythic), harmony, lifebloom,wild mushroom >95% uptime or gtfo and double rejuv most of the time on both tanks. Wild growth was used whenever it was worth it and up(4+ damaged ppl), then the rest is just a balance between rejuv, regrowth, healing touch and try using swiftmend on CD. You get alot of free casts of regrowth like this anyway, so I usually just stuck with rejuv/htouch if it was mana intensive fight, otherwise if mana wasn't a problem you just replace htouches with regrowth all the time. DoC is good for downtime when theres nothing to heal or if you need to get some mana back and are certain your other healers will be able to keep the raid up. I liked building quite a bit of spirit since as a druid its piss easy to throw mana away and more mana= more heals. It seems his main problems are just keeping lifebloom/wildgrowth/harmony up, tell him to get some tell me when or something on the middle of his screen to fix that shit.

EDIT: The timing of your tranquility can make or break your hps on numerous fights aswell.

[Jarob22]

I'm not a full blown expert on log reviews, nor have I done Velhari on Mythic yet so I don't exactly know the ins and outs of this fight.
My guild is working on it, but I'm sitting out a bit due to RL time obstruction.

A druid can spam wrath with Dream of Cenarius (resto talent; converts 150% of wrath damage done to healing), but it's generally not considered proper healing. Unless a fight has a phase that's extremely lenient on healing and then becomes really tough. Velhari might be such a fight, but I leave that up to your judgement.
From what I can see he mostly seems to be spamming wrath in phase 1 with a few heals in between. If phase 1 is easy enough for you healers to handle than this is a valid way of healing. He seems to mostly drop the wrath casting in phase 2 and 3 for actual healing.

Outside of the wrath spam though, I see a lot of things that could easily improve his throughput should that be an issue.

- Harmony uptime could be better. It's about 86%, which isn't awful, but at this level should really be between 95%-100%.
- Lifebloom uptime is very low. It's up 48% of the time; and there is very little reason not to have this up. Also makes Moment of Clarity a bit useless.
- Wild Mushroom uptime is really low.
- Not very sold on the rejuvs either

He seems to be favoring a style of high Wild Growth uptime combined with Wrath (mana free) casts with Dream of Cenarius to not run OOM too fast.

I'm sure others with more experience in this fight can provide better answers for this, but this seems like a more rejuvination raid coverage style of healing (drop a few WGs in phase 1 and you'll still be good for the difficult part of the fight !) would be a better option. That way you also get an additional strong cooldown like Nature's Vigil in return that is really solid for fights like Velhari in the later 2 phases where healing becomes clutch.

I guess others can pitch in with more experience on mythic Tyrant.

Kind Regards,
Horde Druid on EU-Defias Brotherhood :>

- - - Updated - - -



This is a very valid concern. Especially for Velhari where the balance between having enough healing for the last 2 phases and having more dps to burn through it quicker can be just the thing you need.

That said, In the logs it mostly showing him casting Wrath during phase 1. So if healing is more than sufficient there it's not a massive massive issue.
Then again, Dream of Cenarius (the talent) is a strong contender with both Heart of the Wild and Nature's Vigil which are both excellent throughput cooldowns.
By going for DoC he's basically semi-screwing his own output over in the later part of the fight. Instead of spamming wrath, because apparently there is no need for more healing, he could also just float some Rejuvinations and make better use of his Moment of Clarity talent (WHICH HE DEFINITELY IS NOT !) to do enough healing yet still sustain high mana for P2 and P3.

P1 velhari isn't big on healing apart from spike phases where the fire pillars shoot up from the circles on the ground, which favours a WG rapid heal style. P2 and P3 are the more blanket-y phases. Since you've done more in-depth analysis of his wrath/DoC usage it seems to be less of a concern that he isn't pulling his weight, and probably more that the other healers there can snipe P1 heals better than he can as a druid.

However the MoC, harmony, LB, WG issues are valid. I also see almost no help from him in p1, not even from WG. If you're ever having P1 healing issues, you need to ask your druid to step up. However, it may be that his DoC healing is helping enough that it isn't necessary. I don't know, I'm not in your raids.

It seems he's also able to cast wrath in p2 and p3 too. I don't know about your raids, but I as a druid healer was -constantly- healing in p2 and p3, blanketing the raid because of the low hp pools and using WG etc when the marks happened, and the same for P3 - as a druid you need to step up in p3 and be the moving healer to help blanket the raid. If it seems like this really isnt necessary at all then I question the need for the 4th healer altogether.

[Deleted]

I would say try every fight with 3 healers, if raid keeps dieing then get a 4th, since 4 healers is really really pushing it.

[Jarob22]

I would say try every fight with 3 healers, if raid keeps dieing then get a 4th, since 4 healers is really really pushing it.

Yeah with ilevel as it is right now and hpallies and shammies being op as hell (at least when I last played) 3 is the norm. Velhari is also a boss where another dps can really help you push harder and get less damage happen to you (eg kill p2 add faster, get less fire circles in p1, kill p3 faster etc).

[Orionid]

He's not healing correctly in any way shape or form to be 100% honest with you. Here are my most recent logs for reference

1) He's running Dream of Cenarius which is a talent that shouldn't be used outside of like running 5 mans, certainly is not warranted in virtually any raid situation - especially progression. It was his 6th overall healing spell, because it simply just isn't an efficient way to heal in a raid environment.
2) He's also running Soul of the Forest over Incarnation which however not as bad, is still uncommon. If running SotF though you want to cast Swiftmend basicall on CD and he missed at least 8 casts in that longest pull attempt you guys have.
3) Wrath shouldn't really be cast unless there is no damage going or you have no mana. Running DoC changes this as you get healing, but you shouldn't be running DoC to begin with.
4) If he is casting Wrath due to mana issues...he needs to cast Wild Growth WAY less. In my logs I cast 9 less WGs in a kill lasting 30 seconds less than your 23% wipe. And I ended the fight with only 15k mana, after using a Channeled Potion during the fight as well.
5) LIFEBLOOM!!! You should aim to never have LB fall off your targets. On Velhari, both tanks are a good option for each LB. Or 1 on a tank and 1 on a melee. His LB uptime is less than 50% that just won't cut it.
6) REJUVINATION!!! One of if not the strongest healing spell we have. He has less than half the casts that I do, and it looks like he's not running Germination as the 100 talent either. On that note it looks like he's running Moment of Clarity but has less Regrowth casts than I do in mine shorter kill time.
7) MUSHROOM!!!! This fight is the easiest fight to cast Mushroom on, just keep it on the melee under Velhari the entire fight, its free healing!

That's all the time I have now to write-up on this short log review. But honestly your Resto Druid is doing literally EVERYTHING wrong from a healing perspective and the fact he made it to Mythic Velhari is surprising. He needs to read a Resto Guide on how to heal, and what talents to choose, cause it's just not good

[Deleted]

Ok thanks for the tips guys, ill relay some of this stuff to the guild.

[soulstaz]

TBH, the whole healing crew is underperforming a lot.

Like most people said: Get that guy to change his spec. DoC is pure garbage, he need to take HotW and pop it during last part p2 or during p3 depending on the healing require. While SoTF isnt so bad, INC give much more power potential when really needed (during P3 Inc is really amazing). He need to reaplce MoC to Germination and start spamming those rejuv.

The only point he could argue is about SoFT tbh. I could see an argument about a buffed WG during edict can be useful (even if still think that INC is much much better)

edit: removing warcraftlog url cause our log are private.

[Deleted]

Im not a resto druid expert but i know when i progressed Tyrant (on my disc) like back in nov i think, our resto druid took Heart of the Wild so he could pop it with tranq on one of the harder hitting Edicts. Would easily do about 7 mil healing with tranq if not more.

But cant say if that is best way to do it now, just think Dream of Cenarius seems really out of place in a mythic raiding content and really shouldn´t be used as a mana saver at that point.

[Loganess]

Everyone likes to forget that Tyrant and the synchronising with the combat log is "bugged" and there is no overhealing during the phases where there is the maximum health debuff. So when you see people saying "LOOK AT MY LOGS I DID 200K SO HES BAD IM NOT!! h3h3 xD". Here's an example of how I do crazy numbers on my shaman and I call it the 'Healing Tide' spec. Speccing into absolutely everything that can buff healing tide just for 1 moment in the fight during phase 2. I end the fight with a stupid log, but I didnt do any useful healing outside of that 10 second healing tide. Does this make me good? Does it make my spec the 'right spec' to use? No it doesn't.

So have a look at the real reason the healers are there and that is the keep the raid alive. On the Tyrant fight that is literally edict for the raid, and tank healing. The forum is right in saying he shouldn't really be Dream of Cenarius as he could spec Heart of the Wild to use on one of the edicts TO KEEP THE RAID ALIVE. But if they already are staying alive then you are overhealing the fight and should drop down to 3, but if you can't do that if anything Dream of Cenarius and the amount of wraths he is using is the right thing to do as it is contributing the most DPS of any of the builds. (I am however not supporting this).

P.S. On a side note, Harmony uptime is generally lower when specced Dream of Cenarius as it isn't affected by the wrath healing and therefore you can let it fall off and continue to wrath until you need to cast a 'real' healing spell again.

His Harmony and Lifebloom uptime should be as close to 100% though in this fight when he specs HotW

Phase 1: All padding. He should focus solely on the current tank and the Touch of Harm targets with a full row of hots (Lifebloom included), and throw in a Wild Growth on the infernal tempest / edict. Keep Mushroom down in melee and clearcast procs should go into Touch of Harm targets and Wrath inbetween to conserve mana. Rejuv is not used on the raid here.

Phase 2: Again a lot of padding (due to all healing whether overhealing or actual healing counting towards the meter). If you are trying to look good on the meters by all means spam your heart out. But if you are trying to kill the boss this is the same as phase 1 however; he should now keep Rejuvenations ONLY on the Font targets, Wild Growth on cooldown. There won't be many spare globals for wrath at this point. Depending on raid cooldowns, he should = combine Tree and HotW for one edict and Tranq for another. He should pop Tree and HotW 10 seconds or so before the edict and start pre Rejuvenating EVERYONE.

Phase 3: No padding here. At this point he can go full yolo because there is constant damage going out. This is his permission to spend what mana he has left to rejuv absolutely everything. If your Phase 2 edicts are covered well enough by raid cooldowns he can actually save HotW for now as it is a lot more effective here. The raid will take increasing damage, from 2 or 3 sources depending on whether you suicide edict. THIS IS HEAL YOUR HEART OUT PHASE.

If you look at a lot of top logs it is just taking advantage of the no overhealing mechanic and you will see their HPS spike very high over phase 2 and drop again in phase 3. These logs will also be farm fights where they overgear and overskill the content anyway making it a faceroll. If you are still progressing you should forget the HPS and focusing on getting job done. Logs are not always an accurate way to measure healing. You need to look at reality.

[Orionid]

@Loganess...
Based on your detailed instruction on how to heal Velhari as a Resto Druid, I assume you are not a bad player. However if you truly looked at this Druid's logs in question - for all fights not just Velhari specifically, it is blatantly obvious this player is doing literally everything from from a healing perspective no matter what way you slice it.

There is also no synchronization error or '"bug" within WCL. The fight allows for no overhealing in that phase and therefore people go full pad lord to parse rank 1. See logs with Warlocks stacking a 7mil tap shield and having a priest guardian spirit and burn through the entire thing and do 500k DPS. Because of things like this the guy who owns WCL doesn't care about the ranks and isn't voiding any of them. That being said, going full pad lord on content that you've had on farm for 6 months and progressing on the fight are totally different.

But back to why this thread was created "Is Our Druid Playing Wrong?" Regardless of your feedback the answer remains the same: YES this Druid is playing completely wrong.

[Loganess]

@Loganess...
Based on your detailed instruction on how to heal Velhari as a Resto Druid, I assume you are not a bad player. However if you truly looked at this Druid's logs in question - for all fights not just Velhari specifically, it is blatantly obvious this player is doing literally everything from from a healing perspective no matter what way you slice it.

There is also no synchronization error or '"bug" within WCL. The fight allows for no overhealing in that phase and therefore people go full pad lord to parse rank 1. See logs with Warlocks stacking a 7mil tap shield and having a priest guardian spirit and burn through the entire thing and do 500k DPS. Because of things like this the guy who owns WCL doesn't care about the ranks and isn't voiding any of them. That being said, going full pad lord on content that you've had on farm for 6 months and progressing on the fight are totally different.

But back to why this thread was created "Is Our Druid Playing Wrong?" Regardless of your feedback the answer remains the same: YES this Druid is playing completely wrong.

Isn't that what I said

[Azortharion]

Loganess is the best restoration druid in the world.

[Loganess]

Loganess is the best restoration druid in the world.

OMG! The real Azortharion?!!?!? Thank you for your kind words senpai

Edit: What on earth are you doing on Druid forums? I thought you could only shoot arrows? =P!!!!!!!!!!1!1!!!

[Orionid]

Isn't that what I said

I guess so :P

[Byggie]

I'm not a full blown expert on log reviews, nor have I done Velhari on Mythic yet so I don't exactly know the ins and outs of this fight.
My guild is working on it, but I'm sitting out a bit due to RL time obstruction.

A druid can spam wrath with Dream of Cenarius (resto talent; converts 150% of wrath damage done to healing), but it's generally not considered proper healing. Unless a fight has a phase that's extremely lenient on healing and then becomes really tough. Velhari might be such a fight, but I leave that up to your judgement.
From what I can see he mostly seems to be spamming wrath in phase 1 with a few heals in between. If phase 1 is easy enough for you healers to handle than this is a valid way of healing. He seems to mostly drop the wrath casting in phase 2 and 3 for actual healing.

Outside of the wrath spam though, I see a lot of things that could easily improve his throughput should that be an issue.

- Harmony uptime could be better. It's about 86%, which isn't awful, but at this level should really be between 95%-100%.
- Lifebloom uptime is very low. It's up 48% of the time; and there is very little reason not to have this up. Also makes Moment of Clarity a bit useless.
- Wild Mushroom uptime is really low.
- Not very sold on the rejuvs either

He seems to be favoring a style of high Wild Growth uptime combined with Wrath (mana free) casts with Dream of Cenarius to not run OOM too fast.

I'm sure others with more experience in this fight can provide better answers for this, but this seems like a more rejuvination raid coverage style of healing (drop a few WGs in phase 1 and you'll still be good for the difficult part of the fight !) would be a better option. That way you also get an additional strong cooldown like Nature's Vigil in return that is really solid for fights like Velhari in the later 2 phases where healing becomes clutch.

I guess others can pitch in with more experience on mythic Tyrant.

Kind Regards,
Horde Druid on EU-Defias Brotherhood :>

- - - Updated - - -



This is a very valid concern. Especially for Velhari where the balance between having enough healing for the last 2 phases and having more dps to burn through it quicker can be just the thing you need.

That said, In the logs it mostly showing him casting Wrath during phase 1. So if healing is more than sufficient there it's not a massive massive issue.
Then again, Dream of Cenarius (the talent) is a strong contender with both Heart of the Wild and Nature's Vigil which are both excellent throughput cooldowns.
By going for DoC he's basically semi-screwing his own output over in the later part of the fight. Instead of spamming wrath, because apparently there is no need for more healing, he could also just float some Rejuvinations and make better use of his Moment of Clarity talent (WHICH HE DEFINITELY IS NOT !) to do enough healing yet still sustain high mana for P2 and P3.

Everything this post says.


Running with Dream of Cenarius in mythic progression to begin with is very...questionable. Even in mythic 5-man I don't see many druids choosing that talent over the other two of the same tier. The only viable application of DoC is when you are soloing contents (like running dailies) in your healing spec. At least that's what I think, correct me if I'm wrong.

If his primary concern is mana, you can help him out with that:

Ask him about the stats priority - is he comfortable with his spirit level? What trinkets he's using? Does he need Mark of Shadowmoon enchantment? These are the basic things that could get him started on resolving the regen issue;


Ask him to consider switching his healing style - Try Heart of the Wild, use Reju, keep lifeblooms rolling, take advantage of Clearcasting, use glyphed regrowth, and keep track on Harmony (Which I think he did OK, 87% uptime is really not that bad, I've seen much worse. Still, there's room for improvement, Harmony should be up close to 100%).