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Hi all,
I need to upgrade my 6 years old PC and I'd really appreciate your help.
Country: Italy
Parts I already own and will re-use: Case, Monitor, Mouse, Keyboard, Speakers, SSD
Budget: 700/800 euros
What I'll use my PC for: gaming, namely WoW, Dark Souls, Diablo, other hack and slash and Open World games. I never play FPS games.
Thank you in advance.
Recent Forum Posts
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2016-03-08, 05:23 PM #1High Overlord
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Help building a new PC - 700/800€ budget
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2016-03-08, 06:40 PM #2The Lightbringer
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PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
CPU: Intel Core i5-6500 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor (€205.78 @ Mindfactory)
Motherboard: Asus H110M-A Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (€67.89 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory (€71.01 @ Mindfactory)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (€52.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: PowerColor Radeon R9 390 8GB PCS+ Video Card (€314.90 @ Mindfactory)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12II 620W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (€74.22 @ Mindfactory)
Total: €785.80
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-08 19:36 CET+0100
Or
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor (€248.67 @ Mindfactory)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! PURE ROCK 51.7 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (€32.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (€99.22 @ Mindfactory)
Memory: Crucial 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory (€39.15 @ Mindfactory)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (€52.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 380 4GB NITRO Dual-X OC Video Card (€200.55 @ Mindfactory)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12II 620W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (€74.22 @ Mindfactory)
Total: €746.80
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-08 19:39 CET+0100
Depends on your priorities.
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2016-03-08, 06:42 PM #3Bloodsail Admiral
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WoW runs 1.5x faster on Nvidia when CPU limited because of poor CPU efficiency on AMD driver
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2016-03-08, 09:14 PM #4The Lightbringer
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Not really going to make any difference with a 6500/6600K and those cards:
Originally Posted by Svisalith
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2016-03-09, 01:25 AM #5Field Marshal
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parts and prices are from mindfactory/amazon.de, I suggest the OP to take them as example and use amazon.it or local e-shops (like bpm.power or e-price) to reduce shipping costs or to make possible RMA (if anything goes wrong) process simpler. Originally Posted by Artorius
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2016-03-09, 01:27 AM #6Bloodsail Admiral
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The AMD card should suit his/her needs, I always worry about stock cooling on AMD cards though, they run incredibly hot these days. Originally Posted by Artorius
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2016-03-09, 11:37 AM #7High Overlord
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Thank you, everyone. I'll go for the second list you shared, but I'd like to add a GTX 670 instead of the R9 (no problem if I go over-budget).
Thanks, it's appreciated!
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Lastly, any suggestion for a gaming keyboard?
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2016-03-09, 11:42 AM #8Deletedwhy would you go for a 670? its very outdated and the R9 380 and 390 will outperform it by A LOT. If you want to go Nvidia you should look at the GTX 970, its of the most recent series, rather than the 670 which is 2 series older and released first in 2012 Originally Posted by guzacon
there are plenty good keyboards for gaming, I recommend the Logitech G710+
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2016-03-09, 12:10 PM #9The Lightbringer
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If you really want to buy Nvidia the best option is to buy a place-holder GTX950 while the new cards aren't out, then you sell it and buy one of the next series.
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2016-03-09, 02:36 PM #10High Overlord
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My bad, I meant 970 of course!
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2016-03-10, 05:20 AM #11Bloodsail Admiral
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It absolutely will. WoW is CPU bound on any CPU in the world, especially when there are a lot of players around (raids, pvp, large scale open world stuff)Not really going to make any difference with a 6500/6600K and those cards:
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2016-03-10, 03:14 PM #12The Lightbringer
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That's exactly why you're contradicting yourself. Originally Posted by Svisalith
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2016-03-11, 05:46 AM #13Bloodsail Admiral
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No, i have not contradicted myself - you must misunderstand. Originally Posted by Artorius
Radeon driver needs more CPU time per frame than Nvidia driver, therefore it's substantially worse when CPU is the limitation in the affected games (which include WoW). Best config for any WoW system (low or high end) is nvidia GPU by a wide margin because of that deficiency.
CPU heavy situation (like those i listed above) = huge advantage to Nvidia. GPU heavy situation = roughly equal. For WoW the times of lowest performance are CPU heavy.
This is not as well known outside of hardware enthusiast / benchmarking communities, so here i am telling you.Last edited by Svisalith; 2016-03-11 at 05:48 AM.
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2016-03-11, 02:30 PM #14The Lightbringer
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No, no I don't. You're still contradicting yourself. Originally Posted by Svisalith
The difference between the two is that Nvidia setups can make more frames at non CPU-intensive scenarios such as leveling areas and empty cities. When the CPU bottleneck hits it doesn't really make any difference whether you're running a Nvidia system or a AMD one, both will go down to the same framerate.Radeon driver needs more CPU time per frame than Nvidia driver, therefore it's substantially worse when CPU is the limitation in the affected games (which include WoW). Best config for any WoW system (low or high end) is nvidia GPU by a wide margin because of that deficiency.
Nvidia will give you more frames at non-crowded places, and with those cards this is useless because they're all strong enough to make this difference meaningless since they're all well above 60. At raid or other busy scenarios they'll all dip down to around the same.CPU heavy situation (like those i listed above) = huge advantage to Nvidia. GPU heavy situation = roughly equal. For WoW the times of lowest performance are CPU heavy.
You'll notice this difference at low-end cards such as the GTX950, which in this case being from Nvidia helps a lot.
No no, I know very well how AMD and Nvidia interact with WoW. I'm also at electrical engineering and what you could call "hardware enthusiast".This is not as well known outside of hardware enthusiast / benchmarking communities, so here i am telling you.
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2016-03-12, 01:04 PM #15Bloodsail Admiral
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Once again, i have not. My comments are pretty easy to read, if you don't understand it then it's on youNo, no I don't. You're still contradicting yourself.
^Those are the areas where they run similarly. The issue isn't with GPU performance - in CPU light areas where both GPU's are busy, performance is similar. It takes a much stronger CPU for radeon driver in CPU heavy areas.The difference between the two is that Nvidia setups can make more frames at non CPU-intensive scenarios such as leveling areas and empty cities.
Not true. Again radeon driver needs more CPU time per frame for dx11. Well known & documented - go ask about it on overclock.net if you want an essay. There's been a huge performance gap in WoW (on the scale of 1.3x - 1.6x when hard CPU limited) for a few years now. It affects dozens of popular games.When the CPU bottleneck hits it doesn't really make any difference whether you're running a Nvidia system or a AMD one, both will go down to the same framerate.
https://youtu.be/frNjT5R5XI4?t=466
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQzLU4HWw2U
http://imgur.com/a/OttlZ
^look at the dx11 MT result. That's the one relevant for almost all dx11 games. Same CPU, same everything aside from the GPU & nvidia driver gets over twice as many draw calls done as the radeon driver.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1573982/a...he-real-truth/
Because no CPU is "more than fast enough" for WoW, you can never get around this performance deficit - it's always there in raids, cities, large scale pvp & open world stuff etc.Last edited by Svisalith; 2016-03-12 at 02:02 PM.
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2016-03-12, 01:24 PM #16The Lightbringer
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It's not that they're hard to read or anything, you just lack knowledge on what you're trying to talk about. Originally Posted by Svisalith
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2016-03-12, 01:27 PM #17Bloodsail Admiral
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I'm 100% sure that i'm correct here, i know the subject well. You're free to look it up since you have not heard of that performance gap before; I even linked a couple of examples.
Not the best stuff and i'm not writing an essay because it's not worth an hour of time every single time this comes up and one person doesn't believe it. Some stuff is there in my posts for people to see what's up and do their own research if they want more info rather than relying on blind trust.
You can have fun suffering from the dunning-kruger effect and you can buy whatever you want but don't go around recommending substantially worse performing hardware to people that don't know any better.Last edited by Svisalith; 2016-03-12 at 01:36 PM.
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2016-03-12, 02:08 PM #18The Lightbringer
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I never said that. And I even explained to you that this is only relevant at WoW with the lower-end cards and not so strong CPUs. If you try to compare a GTX950 and a R7 370 then sure, go with Nvidia all the way because it'll simply perform better and you'll be safer with it. But we're talking about a 6600K and a R9 380, which in this case the system is overpowering the bottleneck at most times and it doesn't matter. When you step into real busy scenarios, then both AMD and Nvidia dip to the same place. Originally Posted by Svisalith
Do the test yourself, run around at Elwynn Forest with a AMD and with a Nvidia card, you'll notice that the CPU usage is higher with Nvidia even if there isn't anything really going on, and your framerates will also be generally higher. But then we would be talking about ~110 vs 140, what difference does it make? For most people with standard 60hz monitors, None. Now step into a mythic raid scenario and both will fluctuate around 50~60 during heroism and other shit.
There's a reason why we only recommend current Nvidia cards at specific scenarios. The first scenario is when you need a low-mid-end card, in this case the 950 is the best card you can possibly buy. Or when the buyer says that he'll only play WoW and nothing else, in this case a 950/960 will do the job fine.You can have fun suffering from the dunning-kruger effect and you can buy whatever you want but don't go around recommending substantially worse performing hardware to people that don't know any better.
At every other bracket there simply isn't any reason to recommend Nvidia when AMD is more future-proof and already gives you better performance at DX11@1080P. Then you add that they age better, that they do better the higher the resolution goes and that they do ridiculously better with DX12.
On top of that, Blizzard is a contributor of the Khronos Group, porting WoW to Vulkan is a win-win for them since they'll be able to maintain a smaller code-base that will work on more platforms.
I don't base my recommendations with only the present in mind, people are not buying new computers every single year. Compare the performance of a HD7970 when it launched and now, no Nvidia card ages this good. In fact sometimes they get worse with newer drivers because Nvidia is "focusing on newer products".
And even if I were basing it only with the present in mind, a 390 with a 6600K won't have any problems with WoW performing just as well at crowded places. But it'll be better at everything else. OP wants to buy a 970, an expensive card without asynchronous shading support that is already outdated right now. It just doesn't make any sense to buy it.
I'll say it again, the best option is to simply buy a 950 and wait for the next cards.
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2016-03-12, 02:16 PM #19Bloodsail Admiral
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Which is literally incorrect. It is (CPU limits) a bigger issue the more GPU performance you get as there's a hard performance ceiling. It's most relevant with flagship tier hardware and least relevant with low end as the difference between a cheap CPU and a flagship CPU is much smaller than that of a bad GPU to a flagship GPU.And I even explained to you that this is only relevant at WoW with the lower-end cards and not so strong CPUs
WrongWhen you step into real busy scenarios, then both AMD and Nvidia dip to the same place.
WrongAnd even if I were basing it only with the present in mind, a 390 with a 6600K won't have any problems with WoW performing just as well at crowded places
Not gonna say it a seventh time - have fun. Do your research everyone.Last edited by Svisalith; 2016-03-12 at 02:18 PM.
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2016-03-12, 02:32 PM #20The Lightbringer
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It's literally better if you don't. Originally Posted by Svisalith
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