$400 Billion Dollar Tax Give Away to Corporations

[Fugus]

The "Bust your ass" culture made more sense in the early days, when there was less population and more physical work opportunity. Less so going forward, where you will need more knowledge and skills to be ahead of the curve. It still applies in a sense, in that just getting a college degree doesn't mean as much anymore, you have to perform in a higher percentile to be assured success.

About the earlier Disney case, I'm not sure if those Indians were only coming over temporarily to train up before going back to India. Of course I wished no organization does something like that, I'm just not sure how we can make a business keep employees that are now getting paid a lot for a skill that is no longer scarce.

I wholeheartedly agree it made sense in the past. Back then the only choice in labor was manual labor and there wasn't any way for the ones running the companies to get around that and unions made it so they have to give out some kinda reward.

But today it isn't even a case of college and all that, Unions are pretty well dead along with the collective bargaining they provided on the large scale and globalization and automation has ensured that there is more than enough in the labor market to cover what is needed with a surplus.

Now, the workers have next to zero power against the employers who don't care about rewarding hard work or employee loyalty. Busting your ass does still apply in a sense though, it is decent individual level advice and does work as such a great deal of the time, it just makes for horrible policy setting as the more it is applied the worse the outcome becomes for the group as a whole without any protections. It is one of those things where you bring yourself up by lowering the top end for everyone in the pool if that makes any sense (Not sure the best analogy to give for that one)

As for the Disney case, from what I have read they were trying to replace them with a private company who operated off import labor. And I can think of a great way to prevent them from doing that, get rid of import workers or making it EXCEEDINGLY hard to get one so they have to hire local.

AFK

[Gestopft]

The "Bust your ass" culture made more sense in the early days, when there was less population and more physical work opportunity. Less so going forward, where you will need more knowledge and skills to be ahead of the curve. It still applies in a sense, in that just getting a college degree doesn't mean as much anymore, you have to perform in a higher percentile to be assured success.

I think his point was more that "Bust your ass"/learn a trade/go to college works fine as an individual solution, but it doesn't work as a societal solution. Everybody can't get a promotion. Low-skill jobs still need people to work them, and those people need to make a living.

[PC2]

As for the Disney case, from what I have read they were trying to replace them with a private company who operated off import labor. And I can think of a great way to prevent them from doing that, get rid of import workers or making it EXCEEDINGLY hard to get one so they have to hire local.

I hadn't read of anything like the Disney case before and I'm still not 100% sure of the whole context.

If there were plenty of local people who would do that exact same thing as the import workers for the new wage, then I don't see why they would be brought over.

- - - Updated - - -

I think his point was more that "Bust your ass"/learn a trade/go to college works fine as an individual solution, but it doesn't work as a societal solution. Everybody can't get a promotion. Low-skill jobs still need people to work them, and those people need to make a living.

The American Dream was never available to everyone simultaneously and probably is a bad notion now that Millenials have inflated expectations in a more competitive world.

I suppose min wage and social welfare programs could be beefed up a bit, but the fact is the modern economy is less conducive to middle class jobs.

[Sosoulsu]

Just wait...soon you'll have the usual suspects rushing in here telling us that those Corporations deserve those tax breaks so that they can hire more people.

Just like the usual suspects will flock to any topic where races/genders are discussed.
Fuck off with the diametrically-opposing viewpoints. You can have some without the other.

[Seranthor]

That is why Bernie needs to be elected.

So I am curious, assume Bernie gets elected... What is he going to do about it?

[Kaleredar]

I suppose min wage and social welfare programs could be beefed up a bit, but the fact is the modern economy is less conducive to middle class jobs.

When you give 400 billion dollars to people who don't even remotely need it? You're right, it isn't.


If US doesn't make its economy conducive to one that supports the middle class, the nation's economy will in turn fail.

[Lellybaby]

So I am curious, assume Bernie gets elected... What is he going to do about it?

Well for one thing he'll get to nominate one possibly two supreme court justices.

Once its a 5-4 or even a 6-3 liberal court, one of the more liberal states brings in a law banning soft money and take it to the supreme court.

Overturn Citizens United and you're all on your way to getting money out of political elections.

[PC2]

If US doesn't make its economy conducive to one that supports the middle class, the nation's economy will in turn fail.

Except we have only have limited control over all the complexities of economics and how it's effected by technological advancement and globalism.

Staying competitive at the national level is also important.

[Daerio]

I hadn't read of anything like the Disney case before and I'm still not 100% sure of the whole context.

If there were plenty of local people who would do that exact same thing as the import workers for the new wage, then I don't see why they would be brought over.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=disney+h1b

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/25/tech...y-h1b-workers/

For people who think foreign work visas are a good idea, just do a little reading on how Disney recently employed it, and how it's working out for them.

Disney just got hit with two class-action suits.

Leo Perrero and Dena Moore say they were illegally replaced by foreign workers. Both were laid off from their IT jobs at Walt Disney World in Orlando in January 2015.

They were told they had 90 days to train their replacements: Foreigners on H-1B visas, the most common visa for high-skilled foreign workers. If they didn't agree, they weren't eligible for bonuses or severance packages.

So, I'm betting the 90 days of training wasn't exactly high-quality, and the people who barely speak English who lie about their qualifications in order to get a chance to come here aren't doing a great job surprisingly enough.

But it's ok, because they've got that go-getter attitude that's so important. And if they lose their job they get deported. But they'll work for pennies on the dollar!

[PC2]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=disney+h1b

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/25/tech...y-h1b-workers/

For people who think foreign work visas are a good idea, just do a little reading on how Disney recently employed it, and how it's working out for them.



So, I'm betting the 90 days of training wasn't exactly high-quality, and the people who barely speak English who lie about their qualifications in order to get a chance to come here aren't doing a great job surprisingly enough.

But it's ok, because they've got that go-getter attitude that's so important. And if they lose their job they get deported. But they'll work for pennies on the dollar!

I'm happy to send them back if they aren't skilled future citizens.

I haven't heard of this particular scenario before as a big partisan issue.

[Daerio]

I'm happy to send them back if they aren't skilled future citizens.

I haven't heard of this particular scenario before as a big partisan issue.

It isn't a partisan issue because it's a corporate America issue.

Both parties in the same pocket mean things like this don't even get addressed.

[Hiricine]

Who says property is really yours? You weren't born owning anything except what's attached to you. A society that doesn't pay taxes is a society without roads based on who's got the biggest club and the ability to swing it.



Whoops, we're not really sure which country they're based out of because there's 2, so we'll just let them pay neither. Or let them pick. Or who knows, let them do whatever they want I guess!

Yeah, it's not that complicated. If they do business in the US, they pay US taxes. If they fail to pay their taxes, they go to jail.

A few pages back but I had to take a nap. Property is yours through the right of self-ownership. If you own yourself, you own the fruits of your labor. If someone gives you the fruits of their labor through a transaction, its your property through your combined rights of self-ownership. Society already IS about the biggest club, otherwise the IRS wouldn't show up when you don't pay your taxes. Also the idea that there weren't roads before taxes is insane, in any society roads existed prior to taxes. And perhaps the huge amounts of roads out there are a bad thing, maybe we'd see more train travel or more localized economies instead of the commuter society we live in now. Also from a practical standpoint, the amount that's spent on roads is tiny compared to any other use of extorted money, its really a terrible example in every way possible.

2nd point--- the tax occurs at the point that the business took place. These international corporations usually set up a new location within a country they do business in and pay taxes there. To look at it another way, at what point does the power of a nation to tax its people (or its corporations ) END?

[Kaleredar]

Except we have only have limited control over all the complexities of economics and how it's effected by technological advancement and globalism.

So the solution is... roll over and die a slow, painful death because we couldn't be assed to do anything about it?

[PC2]

So the solution is... roll over and die a slow, painful death because we couldn't be assed to do anything about it?

But we aren't dying.

[Vash The Stampede]

About the earlier Disney case, I'm not sure if those Indians were only coming over temporarily to train up before going back to India. Of course I wished no organization does something like that, I'm just not sure how we can make a business keep employees that are now getting paid a lot for a skill that is no longer scarce.

If the H1B workers had to be trained, then they weren't capable of the job, let alone over qualified. They're cheaper, and get the job done. That's why they're taking the place of more qualified workers in America. This isn't something new. Ask anyone who's worked with overseas labor. They're just bodies that get far less pay. It's a Myth that Americans need more education or experience.

[AeneasBK]

Also the idea that there weren't roads before taxes is insane, in any society roads existed prior to taxes.

Well I guess if by road you mean "indicator of how to get to next settlement" then sure. If you actually want something people can use to transport, say, a vehicle...

Taxes.

But hey, I'm sure when you were born in the woods to a medicine man without any education provided for them or anything, you didn't owe anyone anything :^)

[Betelgeuse]

Technically you can't give away taxes to corporations since they owned their income first. That would be like giving away some jewelry you stole to the house you broke into last week. You may argue that its unfair that private citizens get hit harder by taxes than them, but thats like one rape victim complaining that another rape victim didn't get raped hard enough.

That made me rofl. It is disgusting the number of times and ways each dollar earned is taxed.

[Random010203]

He president isn't a dictator with absolute power. Bernie simply cannot do most of the things he is promising

I would argue most of his supporters know this. It isn't a secret that a president can only do so much in office due to the shear amount of time it takes to pass policy in the given allotted time frame. However, most people agree that some change in the system would be better than the current state of affairs.

[Vash The Stampede]

I would argue most of his supporters know this. It isn't a secret that a president can only do so much in office due to the shear amount of time it takes to pass policy in the given allotted time frame. However, most people agree that some change in the system would be better than the current state of affairs.

It would also send a clear message to those in power. After Bernie Sanders, we'll find another person just like him to continue. Then another. Eventually the policies will be put in place, and America will be corrected for the better.

[kail]

Bernie Sanders wouldn't be able to do anything about it, no president can for at least 4 years.

He won't solve it alone, but he will do something. Hillary won't achieve much other than being our history's first female president. Trump will simply be an embarrassment and waste money on stupid priorities. Cruz, well I don't know what Cruz will do other than paint our country's stereotype as the typical Duck Dynasty character.

Bernie is adamant enough to at least start change that benefits citizens as a whole. Will he come through entirely with his promises? Doubt it. But his direction is where I agree with.

We shouldn't elect presidents based on promises, that will always lead to disappointment, guaranteed. You elect them based on character and direction.