[FROST] Legion Beta Megathread

[GhostPanini]

Well that is a good point, thanks.

[Collokey]

The new wording for Frozen Orb...

"Frozen Orb - Launches an orb of swirling ice up to 40 yards forward which deals up to 0 Frost damage to all enemies it passes through. Grants 1 charge of Fingers of Frost when it first damages an enemy. Enemies damaged by the Frost Orb are slowed by 30% for 15 sec. 100 yd range. Instant."

Does this mean it functions like Arcane Orb now? Just passing through targets, rather than sitting in place once it first reaches a target?

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Crossposting:

Changes to Orb. It now despawns at 40-45y, hard limit. They've also made it so that if it's ticking, it will get all 20 ticks out, with one major exception. If it inches beyond the 40ish range limit, it despawns no matter what. Standing at max range from a dummy, I can get as low as 7 ticks. On the plus side, boss hitboxes are very rarely small, so it'll start ticking earlier.

[gallamann]

Have they fixed FO to properly give a FoF proc on initial impact, I am pretty sure that was a bug but have not seen any one say it is resolved

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Nah. Bugs don't get fixed.

[gallamann]

Kuni, what's your take on FO replacing FFB as the BF proc?

Seems a load of people are not happy with it proc'ing FO, and want FFB or an equivalent back (in particular the PvP crowd).

Most of my game play is centered on raiding, so not seeing it as a problem in that environment.

[Deleted]

Hey guys. I was wondering if there is any source (Like Preach, Finalbosstv) on the frost mage in Legion? I obv read the talents, artifact talents and pvp talents, but would like to see some game play. Somebody doing boss testing would be sufficient aswell. Thanks in advance!

[Collokey]

Hey guys. I was wondering if there is any source (Like Preach, Finalbosstv) on the frost mage in Legion? I obv read the talents, artifact talents and pvp talents, but would like to see some game play. Somebody doing boss testing would be sufficient aswell. Thanks in advance!

I spoke to Finalbosstv on his stream a few weeks ago, asking when he'd be doing mage. He said he was focusing on classes that got changes later down the pipeline, or were last to be come available. Since Mage was up from the start (albeit just fire..), he said mage would be one of the last classes he covers, since he already had an (old and outdated) video on their three specs. Too bad, but I'm hoping it happens sooner rather than later.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Kuni, what's your take on FO replacing FFB as the BF proc?

I mean I've only been asking for an Orb reset mechanic since Cata beta with Frostfire Orb. I love it. I also am PVE only, but I love 5 mans as well, so let's look at the primary arguments people have used against it.

Gets caught on terrain: fixed a couple builds back since it now obeys Arcane Orb's pathing.

Zooms off and pulls things: it's now hard capped at 45y. It still speeds up if it's not hitting anything, but it's unlikely something is within pull distance behind what you've already pulled now. Compared to it going ~100y like 4 builds ago.

Isn't strong compared to FFB: Eh. Tuning aside, you're looking at a roughly 600% SP FFB crit plus 30-50% Icicle versus 650% (500%*1.3 trait) SP Orb that crits 45% harder than normal. 5 of the 20 ticks critting is all it needs to overtake the FFB crit with 50% Icicles. Plus Orb deals this in AOE, making it fucking fantastic for literally anything other than Patchwerk. It's not one giant chunk of damage, that's about all you can say on it. Doesn't mean it's worse.

Looks pretty great for both 5 mans and raid. I can't speak to PVP but it seems like the spec has more issues than simply Orb in PVP at the moment.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Kuni, what's your take on FO replacing FFB as the BF proc?

Seems a load of people are not happy with it proc'ing FO, and want FFB or an equivalent back (in particular the PvP crowd).

Most of my game play is centered on raiding, so not seeing it as a problem in that environment.

people that have disliked orb + the gameplay it creates since it was introduced in cata hate the change to focus the entire spec around it (virtually all pvpers, some pvers)
people that have liked orb + orb gameplay are indifferent or like the change (the remaining pvers, I guess)

Irrelevant how everyone feels about the change now anyway at least until the next expansion where they decide to re-re implement class fantasy and remove frozen orb + make blizzard proc from brainfreeze or something

[Sarm]

I don't PVP but I've been trying to get a casual understanding from reading the arena forums, and a lot of what I read seem to indicate that Frozen Orb's the largest of a problem where the class in general is getting too much AoE packed into its main abilities, which is often worthless at best or actively detrimental to your ability to help burst down targets.

FFB's advantage was that it was a focused bursty shot at your target. Not only is Frozen Orb spread out over several seconds, but it also allows enemy targets to willingly jump into the orb to render themselves unstoppable by a number of CC spells, such as Polymorph or Blind. Kuni's math only checks out if your target is hit by every tick, and its meager 30% snare isn't going to be enough to stop anyone from leaving it.

The same problem occurs with the level 90 talent row, which to a PVPer, will be picking anything but Unstable Magic just so your talent bar stops blinking and never use whatever ability you chose. The nova talents were most effective with the removed Prismatic Crystal talent, and no longer having 2 charges breaks their burst potential. Now they're just another AoE ability you won't be able to use against anyone smart enough to get himself CCed near your kill target.

[Seneca]

PvP is a total mess and swapping Frozen Orb for Frostfire Bolt is not going to change much, I am afraid.

Imho, if PvE contents are more enjoyable with FO, it's probably for the better to not do any change at all (but, is it so?).

[Dizzeeyooo]

(but, is it so?).

depends on your perspective - personally think tying our damage to rng procs (fof) which are then largely tied to another rng proc (bf) is going to feel as atrocious in mythic + dungeons as it would do in challenge modes

[Deleted]

I doubt the problem with PvP is that it's AOE; the enemies just get out of it.

[gallamann]

Kuni, thank you, my gut was saying FO is going to be solid for PvE, however so much of what you read in the WoW Legion Frost Mage thread is people upset with FO it's hard to get a feel for what FO is really doing.

As for PvP, Blizzard went to the trouble of adding a PvP tree. If they concur with PvP crowd then tweak it there.

[Deleted]

I don't see anything unclear about it in PvE. It still gives Fingers of Frost and it will still likely be potent enough to be worth using. For most intends and purposes it appears it will feel similarly - individually - and it might be cooler now on AOE.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Kuni, thank you, my gut was saying FO is going to be solid for PvE, however so much of what you read in the WoW Legion Frost Mage thread is people upset with FO it's hard to get a feel for what FO is really doing.

Yeah. It's getting really old reading feedback against Frozen Orb that isn't valid anymore. They've changed how it paths, it can't get stuck on rocks and twigs, stop bringing that to the table. It's like these people haven't played with it.

The one solid complaint right now is that it doesn't actually stop on the first tick, it stops on the second tick. This seems to be the ability to push into mob packs with large hitboxes. That's great, it just means you have to adjust for small hit box single mobs a bit, and I agree that can be annoying. But this is only applicable to this build since it's a new change.

ETA: Okay no, there's one other issue. The animation does NOT fit the hitbox, and people are losing their shit about it being smaller. It's a 10y radius from center, the animation ends like 4y.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Yeah. It's getting really old reading feedback against Frozen Orb that isn't valid anymore

Yeah, shame all those people giving non valid feedback that they fundamentally dislike the brainfreeze/frozen orb mechanic cant just git gud and come around to your point of view

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Yeah, shame all those people giving non valid feedback that they fundamentally dislike the brainfreeze/frozen orb mechanic cant just git gud and come around to your point of view

Cute.

I don't mind if people are going to rag on it, as an opinion can't be wrong. Dislike the interaction all you want. Don't try and justify it, just state it. Maybe give some examples of where it's a detriment, but test the damned reason before posting.

When you're backing up your opinion with factually incorrect information, you're in for a bad time because I'm likely to call you out on it. As of 2-3 builds ago Orb doesn't get caught on things, arguing that it does right now isn't valid at this point in the beta. Orb isn't flying off and pulling mobs in dungeons unless you're hitting it so late into a mob's health that it basically doesn't stop, and that's poor play. Now, as I did admit, there was absolutely no reason for it to travel 100+ yards in a single cast and should entirely be capped at 40, much like every other effect that radiates out from the player. Blizz listened to that, it now stops at 45 yards. Now unless you're standing in melee range, throwing Orb towards the next pack, right as the mobs you're currently fighting are about to die, it's not going to be an issue. It's less of an issue than other specs, who have radiating effects that don't stop at targets, yet (most) get no complaints.

Was the "git gud" comment out of line? Yeah, and I'll admit that.

[Golden]

Yeah, shame all those people giving non valid feedback that they fundamentally dislike the brainfreeze/frozen orb mechanic cant just git gud and come around to your point of view

Frozen Orb puts your whole PvP team at a disadvantage each time it's cast. I'd rather have something else proc for PvP.