[MARKSMANSHIP]Legion Alpha Discussion

[Jarlhen]

Is it the same in beta as on live? One particular talent spec is heads and shoulders above the rest with no real wiggle room? Or does the artifact weapon change things?

[Dracodraco]

Huh? There's nothing to think about, it's literally right click and forget. The autoshot isn't even what matters, it's the proc you can get from the autoshot and it feels awful to have to wait for procs based on autoattacks since there's very little you can actually do to control it.

In fairness, you're trying your hardest to misunderstand him. He says you have to think about auto shots now - you do. You have to see when an auto is about to fire so you know if you should let your Sidewinders charge sit for another .5 seconds to hopefully get a proc right after the next autoshot, or fire it off straight away. Sure, you're not doing anything to keep auto shot ACTIVE, but you still "have to think about auto shot".

[Ifritlol]

Which Gold Trait did you guys go for first on the MM artifact? Wasn't too sure which was the best to go for. The path to Call of the Hunter seemed nice but not too sure, haven't messed around with Marks too much, mainly SV and BM.

From my raid testing I see that Bulleye is VERY strong. You execute like warrior in MoP, while other 2 gold traits give you, like, 1.5-2% each through the fight. One that proc from Aimed can give you more, maybe, 4%. So, I think, Bullseye is way to go.

[Izenhart]

Anyone playing the Beta knows if there have been any changes recently?

I tried some tests on a dummy a week or so ago and the premade MM Hunter was at 140k dps or so

I tried it again today and it barely broke 90k

[Cheze]

vulnerability will probably feel much better once you get the artifact weapon and can use windburst to apply it on demand, especially with patient sniper. Right now it's annoying to neeeeeed a proc to burst something and not get one, but with windburst you'll have an on-demand application on a short cooldown.

[Pengalor]

In fairness, you're trying your hardest to misunderstand him. He says you have to think about auto shots now - you do. You have to see when an auto is about to fire so you know if you should let your Sidewinders charge sit for another .5 seconds to hopefully get a proc right after the next autoshot, or fire it off straight away. Sure, you're not doing anything to keep auto shot ACTIVE, but you still "have to think about auto shot".

I'm sorry, are you trying to tell me what's going on in my own head? Lol, exactly how far up your own ass are you? Not everyone thinks exactly the same way you do (thankfully).

As for the rest, maybe that's relevant for you but for the vast majority of raiding hunters that little extra bit is going to be meaningless. The situation you're describing is basically asking for the stars to align. You need to have you auto-shot incoming at the right interval, you need to not have a proc, you need to be at the right segment of RPPM to realistically hope for a proc (as well as you having to track the RPPM to know when to expect a proc). The gamble will pay off every once in a while but in most cases it seems like you'd just be wasting your time.

[Azortharion]

Happens all the time, maybe play the game and open your eyes and you'll find that the situation he describes will happen multiple times in a fight. Way to go completely aggro when it's obvious to everyone that you're the one who doesn't know what they are talking about.

You don't need to be in a certain RPPM range for it to be worth waiting another .5s hoping for another proc. Back-to-back procs easily happen often enough for this to be better play.

[Dracodraco]

I'm sorry, are you trying to tell me what's going on in my own head? Lol, exactly how far up your own ass are you? Not everyone thinks exactly the same way you do (thankfully).

As for the rest, maybe that's relevant for you but for the vast majority of raiding hunters that little extra bit is going to be meaningless. The situation you're describing is basically asking for the stars to align. You need to have you auto-shot incoming at the right interval, you need to not have a proc, you need to be at the right segment of RPPM to realistically hope for a proc (as well as you having to track the RPPM to know when to expect a proc). The gamble will pay off every once in a while but in most cases it seems like you'd just be wasting your time.

Well, you replied to a post stating that we now have to think about auto shots to minmax. This is 100% true.
Your reply said we don't have to think about it, it's just rightclicking and forgetting. This is not at all what he was referring to, and thus I can only assume that you either don't know the new hunter mechanics (you clearly do), or that you're trying to misunderstand him on purpose, because of-fucking-course he wasn't referring to ACTUALLY ACTIVELY USING AUTO SHOT. It's a fucking AUTO shot. He was referring to tracking it and reacting to it.
So yea, guess I will tell you what's going on in your head if you make such obvious mistakes. You don't have to think like me, but on the other hand, if you say dumb shit, don't expect to not be called out on it. That's silly.

As for the rest, it's relevant for min-maxing. The scenario plays out multiple times a fight even in the short 2-3 minute encounters we have in HFC for me, so on longer fights it'll be a significant boon to be able to react accordingly. For whom it'll actually be feasible to do this isn't really relevant - there's no denying that it's worth doing. As for your assumptions, you don't actually need to do half of what you're saying to do it efficiently, you're way over complicating it. From the top:

Auto shot incomming at the right interval - this is determined by your swing timer. If it's under <insert amount you're willing to delay sidewinders> time, you wait.

Right segment of RPPM - entirely irrelevant. We're dealing with a proc that has a 5 RPPM base, and a spell that has a 12 second CD base. Realistically, you can expect a proc to be up for every sidewinder on-time because the proc happens so frequently (and the recharge time of a sidewinder is the same as the "cool down" period of the RPPM proc). In actual play you'll sometimes end up overwriting procs and thus lose out on a use, but as a general rule of thumb, when a RPPM proc has such a low cooldown, it doesn't really matter if you're 4 or 10 seconds in without a proc - waiting the .5 seconds I'd recommend is worth it to check if it's going to happen.

The above ties directly into tracking the RPPM to expect a proc - again, it happens so frequently that generally, you can expect a proc every sidewinder. No real need to track it.

So, min-max for dummies:

Figure out how long you're willing to delay sidewinders for if you don't have a proc.

If you have no proc but sidewinders is about to hit 2 charges, check swingtimer. Is it below the "I'm willing to wait"-threshold?

If no, fire off a sidewinder.

If yes, fire off a sidewinder right after you fire your autoshot and hope you got a proc from that autoshot.

It's really that simple, but it's something that gives the playstyle a little more depth.
'

[Deleted]

Figure out how long you're willing to delay sidewinders for if you don't have a proc.

'

And how long is that? What are the simulations saying about that? Or is it a matter of feeling?

[GoKs]

The fact that he stated "..how long YOU ARE WILLING to delay..." indicates that it is a matter of feeling =P