[SURVIVAL]Legion Alpha Discussion

[Zaak]

Yeah threat issues are pretty bad right now. Pet should have something better aoe tank as thunder clap doesnt seem to do its job very well. Normally when questing I try to pull at least 3,4 mobs and 3/4 will be attacking me. Its not a huge problem as you get healed after every fight for 15% (or was it 10?) but it still leaves me with pretty low hp after every pull, but I just reduce the number of mobs I pull until I have enough HP again to pull more. Exhi also gets its cd reduced after every mob kill if you skilled into it, which isnt that bad. Still, its sad that the pet is incapable of holding several mobs. Tenacity should be able to do it with no problems. Also, another thing that bothers me is that taunt doesnt work on some elites/bosses. Why was that changed? I mean, I know a lot of hunters keep their taunt on or forget to turn it off, maybe they did it because of them? Dunno. But it could have saved me a lot of times if I could just have taunted the boss for a few secs to get the tank back up or something. WQ elite bosses also cant be tanked which annoys me more than dungeon bosses...

[Deleted]

Yeah threat issues are pretty bad right now. Pet should have something better aoe tank as thunder clap doesnt seem to do its job very well. Normally when questing I try to pull at least 3,4 mobs and 3/4 will be attacking me. Its not a huge problem as you get healed after every fight for 15% (or was it 10?) but it still leaves me with pretty low hp after every pull, but I just reduce the number of mobs I pull until I have enough HP again to pull more. Exhi also gets its cd reduced after every mob kill if you skilled into it, which isnt that bad. Still, its sad that the pet is incapable of holding several mobs. Tenacity should be able to do it with no problems. Also, another thing that bothers me is that taunt doesnt work on some elites/bosses. Why was that changed? I mean, I know a lot of hunters keep their taunt on or forget to turn it off, maybe they did it because of them? Dunno. But it could have saved me a lot of times if I could just have taunted the boss for a few secs to get the tank back up or something. WQ elite bosses also cant be tanked which annoys me more than dungeon bosses...

Because it would allow many 2 tank encounters to be tanked solo. Bosses, that are immune to hard CC are immune to pet taunts, too.

[Phototropic]

Regarding growl, unless it has changed from live, not only does it not work on mobs +1 or more levels than you, it'll also not be cast by your pet even when "on."

I may have missed something but specifically pertaining to pets; do hunter pets now actually generate threat (a la warlock's voidwalker) rather than a fixate period during growl (a la generic taunt component)?

[Firebyrd]

Regarding growl, unless it has changed from live, not only does it not work on mobs +1 or more levels than you, it'll also not be cast by your pet even when "on."

I may have missed something but specifically pertaining to pets; do hunter pets now actually generate threat (a la warlock's voidwalker) rather than a fixate period during growl (a la generic taunt component)?

Hunter pets have generated threat for ages, though not like a voidwalker. When they growl, they taunt and have greatly increased threat gen for a few seconds after (300% iirc).

[TipTopPoet]

Am I the only one who feels that Survival feels a little bit underwhelming. I've mostly played tanks since TBC (was a rogue in vanilla), but Hunter is usually my primary alt that I just muck about with or go on alt raids, etc. So I've been playing hunter on-and-off for a while now.

I think this might be me trying to compare it to other melee classes, but I dislike the "spam one button that gets stronger" style of play. (Reminds me a little of arcane mage). It feels like Survival would benefit from at least one other button that would only be usable at high stacks of MB (and no, the artifact power doesn't count in my head as it in itself feels a little bit "meh") to have that big BOOM! button. I found myself getting a bit "bored" of the playstyle this weekend. Granted I only got up to about 105 before I wanted to kill myself, so no clue if more artifact unlocks or better gear would make it feel more impactful.

Like I said, this is purely my opinion and I might be doing something wrong. Feel free to tell me I'm an idiot, but would like to know how others feel about it.

[Vurrin]

Your opinion is echo'd a lot in sentiments like wishing Lacerate had some synergy with the rest of the kit or wishing we had the focus to make the raptor strike talent ( way of Mok'Nathal) worthwhile. Overall I don't mind the Mongoose Fury/Artifact Combo. I just think its a little annoying that its difficult to get 6 stacks outside of cooldowns and yet Survival dmg seems to be heavily reliant on reaching max stacks often since all our buttons that don't scale with Mongoose Fury are pretty mediocre. But hey giant anchor harpoon charges are fun to look at if nothing else.

[Keltas]

My opinion is that stack max needs to go down (3 maybe?), with the damage rolled into other abilities, it'd help a ton.

Then they need a talent, not a legendary, that lets you spread lacerate. Or just remove it because it's so out of place.

Doing that would make it significantly better, at least in my eyes. The spec is trying to be a trap master, while also being a melee+pet combo, while also being some weird stacking damage spec. I thought we wanted single good spec fantasies, not a bunch thrown together.

Edit: Anyone found the Forests Guardian skin for the artifact weapon? It's my favorite of them, but I haven't found it yet.

[Tellof]

Does Survival still feel like MoP Arms Warrior? I'm really intrigued by the idea of melee hunter with a pet but I'm not sure I'm down for more overpower wet-noodle spam.

[Kelthos]

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but if I had to choose between a spammy class and a class that had some downtime, I think I'd choose spammy every time. One of the reasons I'm really enjoying Survival is because I feel like I always have -something- to do. Something in between spammy and downtime would be ideal, of course, but I am enjoying Survival's relatively fast playstyle.

[Keltas]

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but if I had to choose between a spammy class and a class that had some downtime, I think I'd choose spammy every time. One of the reasons I'm really enjoying Survival is because I feel like I always have -something- to do. Something in between spammy and downtime would be ideal, of course, but I am enjoying Survival's relatively fast playstyle.

I have a tooooooooon of downtime as survival once my opener is done. Maybe I'm doing something wrong idk, but at 40% mastery (10% proc chance) and 5% haste I have a good third of my gcds empty. You have really low focus regen baseline, it's like barely enough to keep flanking/lacerate on CD.

I pretty much don't even hit raptor strike in my normal rotation, it takes a lot of focus you don't have. My opener has a couple, and sometimes I'll hit it if I had a good mongoose chain followed by no procs, but it's pretty rare to have the excess focus to hit it. I do try to keep serpent sting up when I take it, but it's hard to do so sometimes.

[Zaak]

I'm at 25% haste (9.9s recharge) and 23% mastery (6.2% to proc) and there are also lot of times where I'm just sitting there not doing anything.

Also right now, explosive trap seems to my second highest damage spell even on single target. Don't think that is how it should be. Also Raptor Strike isn't even on my action bars, seems to be way to useless to be even used

[Marxman]

My opinion is that stack max needs to go down (3 maybe?), with the damage rolled into other abilities, it'd help a ton.

This alone would make the spec a lot more palatable to me. It'd reduce the reliance on RNG for max stacks (outside cooldowns) and reduce the ramp-up time that really hurts the spec a lot imo.

[Zaak]

I'd say 4 stacks. 4 stacks is something you pretty much get to every time, but it's depressing knowing 60-70% of the time you won't be even getting to 5.

[Deleted]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7LnqprAaxQ
finalbosstv vid
seems good

- - - Updated - - -

his point about us not getting a melee spot concerns me tho, might be very true in my guild

[Keltas]

My other main concern is scaling.

Nearly every other spec/class has a mastery that increases 50-80% of your damage by a significant amount. Considering how many secondary stats you get in the first raid tier, I'm afraid of survival falling behind thanks to the lack of a stat that scales like most classes mastery.

Survival has really high base damages, but I'm not sure those will balance it out.
Definitely will be gods of low gear dungeons (especially AoE).
Explosive trap is like 450k damage with talents, grenade is another 600k, SS with carve is 150k, it's pretty gross how much damage we can do without gear. Damage numbers from the i806 pvp premades with 750 weapons btw.

[Deleted]

My other main concern is scaling.

Nearly every other spec/class has a mastery that increases 50-80% of your damage by a significant amount. Considering how many secondary stats you get in the first raid tier, I'm afraid of survival falling behind thanks to the lack of a stat that scales like most classes mastery.

Survival has really high base damages, but I'm not sure those will balance it out.
Definitely will be gods of low gear dungeons (especially AoE).
Explosive trap is like 450k damage with talents, grenade is another 600k, SS with carve is 150k, it's pretty gross how much damage we can do without gear. Damage numbers from the i806 pvp premades with 750 weapons btw.

I think if they get tons of haste (50%+) they can keep way of the moknathal up all the time and haste also improves mongoose bite windows, we will have to see what numbers tell us but haste scaling (then mastery) micht be powerful

[Hebb]

FinalBossTV has released a 2nd pass survival video, in case anyone is interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7LnqprAaxQ

[Keltas]

Those AoE nerfs are what I get for saying it's really good.

rip

[Vurrin]

I'm not sure I'd call it a nerf. If anything I'm happy all the AoE talents are on one tier now. Also glad Dragonfire grenade and Snake hunter aren't competing either too. All in all a pretty good step to making each tier of survival a more compelling choice. Work to be done of course but at least the lvl 90 tier is 3 good options now. And the lvl 60 tier could be interesting if Mortal Wounds gets its numbers tweaked. Of the damage tiers only really the lvl 100 tier has a 100% clear winner. the 15-30 iers aren't perfect but I could at least see situations to swap some talents.

All in all I think these changes are good.

[Deleted]

i like the change all the aoe talents are in the same row