Balance heirloom trinket question

[Selerian]

Hey guys i'd like some advice about trinkets (how original!...).
We had crap luck with our trinket loots so I currently only have DSI (heroic, no WF or socketed), SoC (heroic, no WF or socketed) and OoV.

So my trinket setup should be like this?:
Assault: DSI/SoC
Reaver: DSI/OoV
Kormrok: DSI/OoV (hands go down in a split sec)
Council: DSI/SoC
Kilrogg: DSI/SoC
Gorefiend: DSI/SoC
Socrethar: DSI/SoC
Iskar: DSI/SoC
Velhari: DSI/OoV
Zakuun: DSI/OoV
Xhul: DSI/SoC
Mannoroth: OoV/SoC (?)
Archi: OoV/SoC (?)

Consider that I have the heroic version of DSI, so my main concern is when should I swap DSI for OoV (since swaping SoC is pretty self evident).

[huth]

Gorefiend is a demon, so you'd want OoV for that one too. Depending on how your raid handles the souls, you might be able to go DSI/OoV as well.

[xtramuscle]

And depending on overall kill time perhaps swap oov for 6/6 +2/2 sand man's on reaver + kormrok. With your opener + ring equating to most of your dps, starfire critting makes the biggest difference. Obviously sandmans will only proc once, so you need a really short fight for its one proc to outweigh multiple procs from oov in a godmode rng scenario.

[Adramelch]

And depending on overall kill time perhaps swap oov for 6/6 +2/2 sand man's on reaver + kormrok. With your opener + ring equating to most of your dps, starfire critting makes the biggest difference. Obviously sandmans will only proc once, so you need a really short fight for its one proc to outweigh multiple procs from oov in a godmode rng scenario.

On that matter, it's kinda silly that Sandman's doesn't get a guaranteed proc on the opener, but quite often has a 5-6 seconds delay.

[Selerian]

And depending on overall kill time perhaps swap oov for 6/6 +2/2 sand man's on reaver + kormrok. With your opener + ring equating to most of your dps, starfire critting makes the biggest difference. Obviously sandmans will only proc once, so you need a really short fight for its one proc to outweigh multiple procs from oov in a godmode rng scenario.

I have neither Sandman's, nor the money to craft it (poor ass pleb here, I barely make enough for tokens). As I said I only have the aforementioned 3 trinkets available. Thanks for the reply though ofc.

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So OoV usage instead of DSI is correct for Manno and Archi?

[Adramelch]

I personally prefer DSI over OoV even on those 2 and, as far as I know, that's also the general consensus.

[Selerian]

I personally prefer DSI over OoV even on those 2 and, as far as I know, that's also the general consensus.

From what I have read DSI is clearly better only if we're talking about the Mythic version. My having the heroic version and how that should affect my choice is the reason of my inquiry.

[Adramelch]

From what I have read DSI is clearly better only if we're talking about the Mythic version. My having the heroic version and how that should affect my choice is the reason of my inquiry.

Yeah, that's valid. I can't answer that then. I'd probably still go with DSI tbh.

[Orionid]

Everything you have listed is correct.

Only thing to add is what Xtramuscle said about Sandman 6/6 +2/2 for Reaver/Korm fight length depending. And Swap OoV for DSI on Manny/Archi once you upgrade from Heroic to Mythic DSI. For now OoV is still better.

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I personally prefer DSI over OoV even on those 2 and, as far as I know, that's also the general consensus
Yeah, that's valid. I can't answer that then. I'd probably still go with DSI tbh.

Incorrect. OoV > Heroic DSI for the Demon fights (not including Gorefiend - don't use OoV here. DSI/SoC because adds aren't demons). OoV is about on par with Mythic DSI 0/2 upgraded. Mythic DSI 2/2 > OoV that is when you use DSI over OoV on Manny/Archi and where the "general consensus" comes from.

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Gorefiend is a demon, so you'd want OoV for that one too. Depending on how your raid handles the souls, you might be able to go DSI/OoV as well.

Incorrect. DSI/SoC is far better for Starfall damage on all the Constructs, Spirits, Essences both inside and outside of the belly (none of these adds are Demons). The passive AoE also aids with the Soul killing but shouldn't cause issues.

[huth]

Incorrect. DSI/SoC is far better for Starfall damage on all the Constructs, Spirits, Essences both inside and outside of the belly (none of these adds are Demons). The passive AoE also aids with the Soul killing but shouldn't cause issues.

Theoretically, yes. But in practice, you need sustained damage for those, not proc-boosted. Whether you use DSI or OoV for them is pretty much irrelevant. The procs are mainly relevant for the burst phases on Gorefiend.

And if you're sufficiently geared or have lots of DKs/Boomkins, it can cause quite serious issues with the souls, like killing healer souls long before they're due, so that having some of them not use SoC/NP can be preferable.

[Selerian]

LOL I JUST GOT DSI MYTHIC!

Thanx for all the feedback guys regardless!

So I guess now I'll just swap out Soc for OoV for single target fights and perma keep DSI.

[Orionid]

Theoretically, yes. But in practice, you need sustained damage for those, not proc-boosted. Whether you use DSI or OoV for them is pretty much irrelevant. The procs are mainly relevant for the burst phases on Gorefiend.

And if you're sufficiently geared or have lots of DKs/Boomkins, it can cause quite serious issues with the souls, like killing healer souls long before they're due, so that having some of them not use SoC/NP can be preferable.

I agree the argument between DSI & OoV for add damage is irrelevant because they're both proc trinkets, but that wasn't what I was talking about. I wasn't speaking between DSI or OoV. The person I quoted said to use OoV over SoC which is incorrect. SoC technically still has a proc chance but even with Heroic 2/2 SoC it's nearly 100% uptime on Starfall from Starsurge. And that passive AoE will help in all aspects of the fight.

I have a full BiS gear and it still doesn't cause issues as long as your Soul Breaker does their job correctly. It's highly unlikely raids are stacked with enough DKs/Boomkins for the passive damage to cause serious issues. If anything, it allows the Soul Breaker to hit Gorefiend more than the Souls as they're passively be going down faster. Otherwise the DK(s) should swap to BoS over NP for more damage on boss.

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LOL I JUST GOT DSI MYTHIC!

Thanx for all the feedback guys regardless!

So I guess now I'll just swap out Soc for OoV for single target fights and perma keep DSI.

GRATS! I remember waiting forever for it. And yes that is the correct usage of your trinkets as you said Sandman's 6/6 +2/2 is out of your reach.

[huth]

It's highly unlikely raids are stacked with enough DKs/Boomkins for the passive damage to cause serious issues.

Unlikely. Not impossible. My statement only applies if it does happen. So, in fact, it is your post that is incorrect, since you flat-out called it wrong without any conditionals.

And there are thousands of raids, not all of which have the freedom to field perfect setups. So it is actually not that unlikely to happen to some of them.

[Adramelch]

What is really up with the crafted trinket btw? I tried using it on Reaver against, equipped it around 1.5 mins before pull (just to make sure no shenanigan-y internal cooldown stuff went on) and it only procced 32 seconds in. Do I have to equip it 2 mins before pull for the internal CD to reset or what?

[huth]

What is really up with the crafted trinket btw? I tried using it on Reaver against, equipped it around 1.5 mins before pull (just to make sure no shenanigan-y internal cooldown stuff went on) and it only procced 32 seconds in. Do I have to equip it 2 mins before pull for the internal CD to reset or what?

Well, it is an ICD trinket, so there's no streak protection. You could just have gotten exceptionally unlucky.

[xtramuscle]

The trinkets which are better or average is different to which trinket is pure best. On average dsi has a higher uptime than oov. So it pulls ahead. However, on fights where you rng and oov has the same uptime as dsi would have had, oov will produce better numbers. That said one proc during dogs on archi will yield three times the dps of a proc when no adds are up.

And I agree with huth. For the best gorefiend rank, you need to use oov dsi, manually cast Starfall in phase one, not get sent in, and have both rppm trinkets proc during the first and only feast. But the chance of that is one in a million, and if all those things don't happen you'll do lower damage than with oov and soc. So again it depends if you want more damage on average week after week, or if your trying for that stars align rank one. Further more it's only worth trying for that rng if you're killing the boss fast enough, you're not boosting buyers, alts etc.

[Adramelch]

Well, it is an ICD trinket, so there's no streak protection. You could just have gotten exceptionally unlucky.

I've had it happen before though. Last time it procced 24 seconds in on Reaver. Procced 1 second in on Kormrok though.

On a separate note, would a mythic Intuition's Gift be worth it for Gorefiend in a 1 feast kill, given that you can align it with everything? It's something I want to try once I get my hands on one (I have the heroic one but haven't bothered testing with it), out of curiosity rather than anything else.

[Orionid]

What is really up with the crafted trinket btw? I tried using it on Reaver against, equipped it around 1.5 mins before pull (just to make sure no shenanigan-y internal cooldown stuff went on) and it only procced 32 seconds in. Do I have to equip it 2 mins before pull for the internal CD to reset or what?

Sandman's has a 2 min ICD. Yes you are correct you need to equip it 2 minutes before the pull, but even then it doesn't have a guaranteed proc on the pull..which is super AIDS and really depressing but unfortunately simply unavoidable.

[Adramelch]

Sandman's has a 2 min ICD. Yes you are correct you need to equip it 2 minutes before the pull, but even then it doesn't have a guaranteed proc on the pull..which is super AIDS and really depressing but unfortunately simply unavoidable.

Yeah I was aware of the non-guaranteed proc, but there's a difference between it procing 6-7 seconds into the pull and it proccing outside of every CD.