1. #1501
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitepaw View Post
    stuff

    Stop calling your subjective opinions objective truths. I have said exactly why your subjective opinions hold little water and why I think you are wrong about one of the most balanced tiers in the current game. There is literally no where else to go with the discussion so feel free to move on to something else feral related instead of beating the ever loving shit out of a very very dead horse.
    Last edited by Hobbes0773; 2017-08-05 at 01:50 PM.

  2. #1502
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbes0773 View Post
    Stop calling your subjective opinions objective truths. I have said exactly why your subjective opinions hold little water and why I think you are wrong about one of the most balanced tiers in the current game. There is literally no where else to go with the discussion so feel free to move on to something else feral related instead of beating the ever loving shit out of a very very dead horse.
    Aren't you doing the same thing?

    While I don't agree with his proposed buffs I can definitely see where he is coming from concerning the way druids used to be about shapeshifting, but can just be considered a watered down version of their big brother classes these days. I still remember being able to off-tank if shit hit the fan way back, or being able to use tranquility to at least help out healers somewhat. While I don't think anyone will argue that the affinities are pretty decently balanced in their current state, I would personally not consider them succesful in their original goal. They do not come even close to giving the 'specialization' that they were apparently supposed to give, per the earlier mentionted quote.

    Aside from this little mini-rant I have little stake in the actual discussion, but your latest post kinda triggered me I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  3. #1503
    Quote Originally Posted by Reiziger View Post
    Aren't you doing the same thing?
    I'm literally not. He literally called his statements "objective truths" with:

    But if you try again to reject the objective truths about how Feral hybridity, utility and versatility has been all but negated in Legion, you will be making a fool of yourself.
    I may be full of myself, but I didn't stick my head that far up my ass and sniff my own subjectivity and call it "the objective truth."

    Everything here is an opinion for the most part, and I have seen no one call it that except for that kid. Can we move on from that entire topic now? because it died a long time ago.

  4. #1504
    I would actually agree with him that the versatility of ferals has been neutered or at least severely reduced in legion (or maybe, has been lowered every xpac in a row), and would personally also be prone to calling that a pretty objective assesment. Whether that's a good or a bad thing would be more of a subjective assesment however.

    That said, much like you I don't feel all that compelled to discuss it for another 2 pages so fair enough, I'll refrain from bringing it up again.
    Last edited by Reiziger; 2017-08-07 at 01:13 PM.

  5. #1505
    How good is the +100 energy ring?

  6. #1506
    Quote Originally Posted by Wipeer View Post
    How good is the +100 energy ring?
    Since ferals don't have any "amazing must have" legendaries (SOTA would be the closest), they are all pretty good. Chat does a great job at helping you pool energy better so you can get quite a bit of mileage out of it. It isn't regarded as the best but it is definitely okay to slot and use.

  7. #1507
    Quote Originally Posted by Wipeer View Post
    How good is the +100 energy ring?
    I use the two rings together and swap the talent ring for bracers on heavy aoe fights.

    I love using the +100 ring it makes the rotation quite easy/flexible.

  8. #1508
    From the ptr notes they are removing the 1.5 cd on shifting?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne01 View Post
    I believe your hands should be cut off. As I feel your opinions prove your not fit to type.
    Gen Off-Topic being hella ruthless

  9. #1509
    Quote Originally Posted by idunnowatdo View Post
    From the ptr notes they are removing the 1.5 cd on shifting?
    What change makes you think that?

  10. #1510
    Quote Originally Posted by Irmo View Post
    What change makes you think that?
    it says instant vs 1.5 that it is wrong. *shrug* but I dont know
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne01 View Post
    I believe your hands should be cut off. As I feel your opinions prove your not fit to type.
    Gen Off-Topic being hella ruthless

  11. #1511
    Quote Originally Posted by idunnowatdo View Post
    From the ptr notes they are removing the 1.5 cd on shifting?
    Anyone test this? I think I'd die with happiness if that were the case. the GCD is so freaking clunky

    edit: hopped on the PTR. The GCD still exists.
    Last edited by Hobbes0773; 2017-08-16 at 11:34 PM.

  12. #1512
    Moderator -aiko-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    The House of All Worlds
    Posts
    9,119
    I think it might just be a tooltip correction for cat form on other specs. I guess?
    {MMO-Champion General Rules} {Off-Topic Forum Rules} {Video Games Discussion Forum Rules}

    "Curse the fiends, their children too. And their children, forever true."

  13. #1513
    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko- View Post
    I think it might just be a tooltip correction for cat form on other specs. I guess?
    I do think the same,


    I am a menace to my own destiny.

  14. #1514
    So now MoC affects the next 2 Shred, Swipe etc for 20% instead of next 3 for 15% ?
    How is that a good change?
    KJ HC 1% left, tanks dead, half raid dead. Boss targets hunter.

    Whole raid screaming "TURTLE!! TURTLE!!"
    [email protected] in a casual russian accent "Don't worry, don't worry, Nekita is here"

    Small silence and whole raid laughs so hard )

  15. #1515
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellshout View Post
    So now MoC affects the next 2 Shred, Swipe etc for 20% instead of next 3 for 15% ?
    How is that a good change?
    It procs twice more often from base 4 procs per minute (ppm) to 8 ppm. So you will get procs every 6-9 seconds instead of 12-18 seconds. And can stack up to 2 stacks (it's better than previous "rare" RNG proc for 3 next attacks). And its about rebalancing all talents, previously you had to choise between 50% buffed Finisher+Rake versus small 15% buff to combo generators that make little damage... Now it's 15% buff to Finishers (buffed by 40% base) to near same as before damage versus 15% buff to 40% harder hitting combo generators (you now buff harder hitting skills with MoC).

  16. #1516
    Quote Originally Posted by TorikSAn View Post
    It procs twice more often from base 4 procs per minute (ppm) to 8 ppm. So you will get procs every 6-9 seconds instead of 12-18 seconds. And can stack up to 2 stacks (it's better than previous "rare" RNG proc for 3 next attacks). And its about rebalancing all talents, previously you had to choise between 50% buffed Finisher+Rake versus small 15% buff to combo generators that make little damage... Now it's 15% buff to Finishers (buffed by 40% base) to near same as before damage versus 15% buff to 40% harder hitting combo generators (you now buff harder hitting skills with MoC).
    Ah yes, I forgot the 100% more proc. Sounds nice. Think I'm going to try Feral and see how it stacks vs Balance, though for AoE, Balance no doubt.
    KJ HC 1% left, tanks dead, half raid dead. Boss targets hunter.

    Whole raid screaming "TURTLE!! TURTLE!!"
    [email protected] in a casual russian accent "Don't worry, don't worry, Nekita is here"

    Small silence and whole raid laughs so hard )

  17. #1517
    I've done some new testing, with 7.3 about to go live next week. It might change if a new action priority list takes better advantage of the new talents but at least it gives people a insight into their decisions next week. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Talent choices in 7.3
    In Legion so far, the feral talent choice to pick was SR+JW+BT, the next nearest choice was over 5-6% behind, we had only 4 builds within 10% and the worse choice was a good 30% behind the best.

    In 7.3 we have usually 9-11 talent builds within 5% of the best one. Its close enough that you might need to get into the habit of doing a regular test of all talent build choices, just like you do for stat weights. The worst build is now only 15% behind the best. The only talent that really hurts dps now is EG and maybe that can be used in some situations (pvp?).

    For the majority of players, definitely everyone not doing mythic raids or over m+15 dungeons, a 5% dps difference, to pick the talents you enjoy playing is a worthwhile decision. If you do 1,050,000 dps with the best choice, you will still do over 1,000,000 dps with any of those 11 other talent build choices. Thats definitely smaller than the random variations from one attempt to another for most people. So be aware of the impact of your choices, but don't be afraid to make them.

    If you a top end player, then Incarn + SR + BT is your best dps choice, you can swap BT for MoC for a tiny 0.5% or less dps loss. Other than that, not much has changed for you, the changes should give you a 1% dps buff and some quality of life improvements.

    T75 SotF 2-4% loss (1% with EG). Smooth energy, slight dps loss
    T75 Incarn BASE - Big swings in energy, best dps
    T75 JW 2-4% loss. Tight energy (fun gameplay), slight dps loss

    T90 SbT 1-2% loss. Very simple gameplay, slight dps loss
    T90 BrS 2-3% loss. AOE heaven. Slight single target loss.
    T90 SR BASE - Interesting gameplay, best single target dps

    T100 MoC 1.5-3.5% loss. Easier gameplay, slight dps loss
    T100 BT BASE - Complex gameplay, best dps
    T100 EG 6-9% loss. Large loss - Fun gameplay, large dps loss

    See the sheet for much more detail.
    Last edited by Aryzel; 2017-08-26 at 02:40 AM.

  18. #1518
    That's an incredible breakdown Aryzel - thank you!

  19. #1519
    Blademaster SekhFeral's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by Aryzel View Post
    I've done some new testing, with 7.3 about to go live next week. It might change if a new action priority list takes better advantage of the new talents but at least it gives people a insight into their decisions next week. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Talent choices in 7.3
    In Legion so far, the feral talent choice to pick was SR+JW+BT, the next nearest choice was over 5-6% behind, we had only 4 builds within 10% and the worse choice was a good 30% behind the best.

    In 7.3 we have usually 9-11 talent builds within 5% of the best one. Its close enough that you might need to get into the habit of doing a regular test of all talent build choices, just like you do for stat weights. The worst build is now only 15% behind the best. The only talent that really hurts dps now is EG and maybe that can be used in some situations (pvp?).

    For the majority of players, definitely everyone not doing mythic raids or over m+15 dungeons, a 5% dps difference, to pick the talents you enjoy playing is a worthwhile decision. If you do 1,050,000 dps with the best choice, you will still do over 1,000,000 dps with any of those 11 other talent build choices. Thats definitely smaller than the random variations from one attempt to another for most people. So be aware of the impact of your choices, but don't be afraid to make them.

    If you a top end player, then Incarn + SR + BT is your best dps choice, you can swap BT for MoC for a tiny 0.5% or less dps loss. Other than that, not much has changed for you, the changes should give you a 1% dps buff and some quality of life improvements.

    T75 SotF 2-4% loss (1% with EG). Smooth energy, slight dps loss
    T75 Incarn BASE - Big swings in energy, best dps
    T75 JW 2-4% loss. Tight energy (fun gameplay), slight dps loss

    T90 SbT 1-2% loss. Very simple gameplay, slight dps loss
    T90 BrS 2-3% loss. AOE heaven. Slight single target loss.
    T90 SR BASE - Interesting gameplay, best single target dps

    T100 MoC 1.5-3.5% loss. Easier gameplay, slight dps loss
    T100 BT BASE - Complex gameplay, best dps
    T100 EG 6-9% loss. Large loss - Fun gameplay, large dps loss

    See the sheet for much more detail.
    I have pretty much come up with the same results from my testing lol. I was going to post a breakdown but you beat me to it. Good Job!

  20. #1520
    Eh

    MoC sims higher based on gear, and beats BT for me.

    Entirely dependent on your specific gear, at least until t21 becomes a thing in a few months.
    Frequent Poster on Fluid Druid, The best Feral community out there

    My Character

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •