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  1. #1501
    I would actually agree with him that the versatility of ferals has been neutered or at least severely reduced in legion (or maybe, has been lowered every xpac in a row), and would personally also be prone to calling that a pretty objective assesment. Whether that's a good or a bad thing would be more of a subjective assesment however.

    That said, much like you I don't feel all that compelled to discuss it for another 2 pages so fair enough, I'll refrain from bringing it up again.
    Last edited by Reiziger; 2017-08-07 at 01:13 PM.

  2. #1502
    How good is the +100 energy ring?

  3. #1503
    Quote Originally Posted by Wipeer View Post
    How good is the +100 energy ring?
    Since ferals don't have any "amazing must have" legendaries (SOTA would be the closest), they are all pretty good. Chat does a great job at helping you pool energy better so you can get quite a bit of mileage out of it. It isn't regarded as the best but it is definitely okay to slot and use.

  4. #1504
    Quote Originally Posted by Wipeer View Post
    How good is the +100 energy ring?
    I use the two rings together and swap the talent ring for bracers on heavy aoe fights.

    I love using the +100 ring it makes the rotation quite easy/flexible.

  5. #1505
    From the ptr notes they are removing the 1.5 cd on shifting?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne01 View Post
    I believe your hands should be cut off. As I feel your opinions prove your not fit to type.
    Gen Off-Topic being hella ruthless

  6. #1506
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by idunnowatdo View Post
    From the ptr notes they are removing the 1.5 cd on shifting?
    What change makes you think that?

  7. #1507
    Quote Originally Posted by Irmo View Post
    What change makes you think that?
    it says instant vs 1.5 that it is wrong. *shrug* but I dont know
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne01 View Post
    I believe your hands should be cut off. As I feel your opinions prove your not fit to type.
    Gen Off-Topic being hella ruthless

  8. #1508
    Quote Originally Posted by idunnowatdo View Post
    From the ptr notes they are removing the 1.5 cd on shifting?
    Anyone test this? I think I'd die with happiness if that were the case. the GCD is so freaking clunky

    edit: hopped on the PTR. The GCD still exists.
    Last edited by Hobbes0773; 2017-08-16 at 11:34 PM.

  9. #1509
    Old God -aiko-'s Avatar
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    I think it might just be a tooltip correction for cat form on other specs. I guess?

  10. #1510
    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko- View Post
    I think it might just be a tooltip correction for cat form on other specs. I guess?
    I do think the same,


    I am a menace to my own destiny.

  11. #1511
    So now MoC affects the next 2 Shred, Swipe etc for 20% instead of next 3 for 15% ?
    How is that a good change?

  12. #1512
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellshout View Post
    So now MoC affects the next 2 Shred, Swipe etc for 20% instead of next 3 for 15% ?
    How is that a good change?
    It procs twice more often from base 4 procs per minute (ppm) to 8 ppm. So you will get procs every 6-9 seconds instead of 12-18 seconds. And can stack up to 2 stacks (it's better than previous "rare" RNG proc for 3 next attacks). And its about rebalancing all talents, previously you had to choise between 50% buffed Finisher+Rake versus small 15% buff to combo generators that make little damage... Now it's 15% buff to Finishers (buffed by 40% base) to near same as before damage versus 15% buff to 40% harder hitting combo generators (you now buff harder hitting skills with MoC).

  13. #1513
    Quote Originally Posted by TorikSAn View Post
    It procs twice more often from base 4 procs per minute (ppm) to 8 ppm. So you will get procs every 6-9 seconds instead of 12-18 seconds. And can stack up to 2 stacks (it's better than previous "rare" RNG proc for 3 next attacks). And its about rebalancing all talents, previously you had to choise between 50% buffed Finisher+Rake versus small 15% buff to combo generators that make little damage... Now it's 15% buff to Finishers (buffed by 40% base) to near same as before damage versus 15% buff to 40% harder hitting combo generators (you now buff harder hitting skills with MoC).
    Ah yes, I forgot the 100% more proc. Sounds nice. Think I'm going to try Feral and see how it stacks vs Balance, though for AoE, Balance no doubt.

  14. #1514
    Deleted
    I've done some new testing, with 7.3 about to go live next week. It might change if a new action priority list takes better advantage of the new talents but at least it gives people a insight into their decisions next week. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Talent choices in 7.3
    In Legion so far, the feral talent choice to pick was SR+JW+BT, the next nearest choice was over 5-6% behind, we had only 4 builds within 10% and the worse choice was a good 30% behind the best.

    In 7.3 we have usually 9-11 talent builds within 5% of the best one. Its close enough that you might need to get into the habit of doing a regular test of all talent build choices, just like you do for stat weights. The worst build is now only 15% behind the best. The only talent that really hurts dps now is EG and maybe that can be used in some situations (pvp?).

    For the majority of players, definitely everyone not doing mythic raids or over m+15 dungeons, a 5% dps difference, to pick the talents you enjoy playing is a worthwhile decision. If you do 1,050,000 dps with the best choice, you will still do over 1,000,000 dps with any of those 11 other talent build choices. Thats definitely smaller than the random variations from one attempt to another for most people. So be aware of the impact of your choices, but don't be afraid to make them.

    If you a top end player, then Incarn + SR + BT is your best dps choice, you can swap BT for MoC for a tiny 0.5% or less dps loss. Other than that, not much has changed for you, the changes should give you a 1% dps buff and some quality of life improvements.

    T75 SotF 2-4% loss (1% with EG). Smooth energy, slight dps loss
    T75 Incarn BASE - Big swings in energy, best dps
    T75 JW 2-4% loss. Tight energy (fun gameplay), slight dps loss

    T90 SbT 1-2% loss. Very simple gameplay, slight dps loss
    T90 BrS 2-3% loss. AOE heaven. Slight single target loss.
    T90 SR BASE - Interesting gameplay, best single target dps

    T100 MoC 1.5-3.5% loss. Easier gameplay, slight dps loss
    T100 BT BASE - Complex gameplay, best dps
    T100 EG 6-9% loss. Large loss - Fun gameplay, large dps loss

    See the sheet for much more detail.
    Last edited by mmocd5f82236af; 2017-08-26 at 02:40 AM.

  15. #1515
    Deleted
    That's an incredible breakdown Aryzel - thank you!

  16. #1516
    Blademaster SekhFeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aryzel View Post
    I've done some new testing, with 7.3 about to go live next week. It might change if a new action priority list takes better advantage of the new talents but at least it gives people a insight into their decisions next week. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Talent choices in 7.3
    In Legion so far, the feral talent choice to pick was SR+JW+BT, the next nearest choice was over 5-6% behind, we had only 4 builds within 10% and the worse choice was a good 30% behind the best.

    In 7.3 we have usually 9-11 talent builds within 5% of the best one. Its close enough that you might need to get into the habit of doing a regular test of all talent build choices, just like you do for stat weights. The worst build is now only 15% behind the best. The only talent that really hurts dps now is EG and maybe that can be used in some situations (pvp?).

    For the majority of players, definitely everyone not doing mythic raids or over m+15 dungeons, a 5% dps difference, to pick the talents you enjoy playing is a worthwhile decision. If you do 1,050,000 dps with the best choice, you will still do over 1,000,000 dps with any of those 11 other talent build choices. Thats definitely smaller than the random variations from one attempt to another for most people. So be aware of the impact of your choices, but don't be afraid to make them.

    If you a top end player, then Incarn + SR + BT is your best dps choice, you can swap BT for MoC for a tiny 0.5% or less dps loss. Other than that, not much has changed for you, the changes should give you a 1% dps buff and some quality of life improvements.

    T75 SotF 2-4% loss (1% with EG). Smooth energy, slight dps loss
    T75 Incarn BASE - Big swings in energy, best dps
    T75 JW 2-4% loss. Tight energy (fun gameplay), slight dps loss

    T90 SbT 1-2% loss. Very simple gameplay, slight dps loss
    T90 BrS 2-3% loss. AOE heaven. Slight single target loss.
    T90 SR BASE - Interesting gameplay, best single target dps

    T100 MoC 1.5-3.5% loss. Easier gameplay, slight dps loss
    T100 BT BASE - Complex gameplay, best dps
    T100 EG 6-9% loss. Large loss - Fun gameplay, large dps loss

    See the sheet for much more detail.
    I have pretty much come up with the same results from my testing lol. I was going to post a breakdown but you beat me to it. Good Job!

  17. #1517
    Eh

    MoC sims higher based on gear, and beats BT for me.

    Entirely dependent on your specific gear, at least until t21 becomes a thing in a few months.
    Frequent Poster on Fluid Druid, The best Feral community out there

    My Character

  18. #1518
    The question now is if it will perform better than Balance using that easier to play spec. I'm not talking about Demonic split AoE or Mistress, I'm talking about regular ST with some casual adds from time to time.
    I do hope so, I'm so tired of Balance.

  19. #1519
    Affinity tuning is a feral only issue tho.

    Resto Cat with Chato is disgusting amount of DPS coming from a healer, to the point WQs and m0 farm are much, much faster as Rest Cat then in balance.

    Balance with Resto affinity can deliver some strong SMs and good Rejus

    Bear can make good use of Resto and Balance affinities. Actually, before shadow trash Bear Catting was the way the increase ur ST damage while off taking.

    But, before anything else, Feral needs its number fixed as a PRIORITY. I really feel the need of an OS that enables me strong ST and snappy/bursty AoE.
    I hope in the future tuning pass, Feral will get the amount of love the spec deserves.

    "single target lie no others". I sill scream vengeance for that sick joke.

  20. #1520
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellshout View Post
    The question now is if it will perform better than Balance using that easier to play spec. I'm not talking about Demonic split AoE or Mistress, I'm talking about regular ST with some casual adds from time to time.
    I do hope so, I'm so tired of Balance.
    Balance is just really strong right now, combined with having almost ideal encounters in ToS. The changes for feral are mostly going to help the below average feral players and a small buff to the top performing players.

    P.S Re-roll to the melee tunnel master race already

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