[Feral] Legion Discussion

[Tellof]

You traded trinket snapshotting for snapshotting with a savage roar that not only costs you a talent slot, but costs more resources for less duration to boot, and juggle that around bleeds that last 2/3 if the time they used to last thanks to Jagged Wounds.

Legion feral is easily the hardest incarnation of feral to date.

Legion feral CAN be complicated, or it can be easy. The distinction is whether or not you want optimal DPS. For most people it probably doesn't matter. In any case, you would still consider LI/SR/BT/JW more complicated than Cata Feral?

[Lucrece]

Legion feral CAN be complicated, or it can be easy. The distinction is whether or not you want optimal DPS. For most people it probably doesn't matter. In any case, you would still consider LI/SR/BT/JW more complicated than Cata Feral?

Yeah, especially with artifact mixed into the equation.

Anything can be easy if you don't care for the optimal setup anyways.

I'm still not sure if BT or SR are really the problem, when it seems like it is JW that actually makes those options far less pleasant for many people. And then you had the puzzling buffs to BT increasing it further when it was already ahead in that tier.

BT/JW/SR may also be manageable in PvE against braindead mobs, but it will be absolutely miserable in PvP where people can actually disrupt your snapshot windows, of that there's no question.

[Tellof]

Yeah, especially with artifact mixed into the equation.

Anything can be easy if you don't care for the optimal setup anyways.

I'm still not sure if BT or SR are really the problem, when it seems like it is JW that actually makes those options far less pleasant for many people. And then you had the puzzling buffs to BT increasing it further when it was already ahead in that tier.

BT/JW/SR may also be manageable in PvE against braindead mobs, but it will be absolutely miserable in PvP where people can actually disrupt your snapshot windows, of that there's no question.

Personally, I hate SR. I wasn't a big fan of it prior to Legion but the 24 second duration on top of the energy cost feels insulting. Add in the fact that LI seems to be the optimal talent for plenty of situations and I just really don't want yet another thing to manage. Part of my desire to play Feral is that it feels pretty versatile and capable in both dungeons and the open world, but I don't think I want to gimp my DPS just to not lose my mind every time I play it. Maybe Predator/Bloodscend+SotF+JW+BT isn't that far behind, but I really hate the thought of using LI and SR on top of all of that.

[teddabear]

Lol if you don't like BT now you would have hated feral back when we had trinket snapshotting and Rune of Reorigination and shit on top of BT (then the much cooler named Dream of Cenarius). Those were the days. Honestly playing feral without BT makes the spec virtually mechanicless. It just becomes a builder/spender class.

Trinket snapshotting was the high point of WoW. The game is a shadow of itself now that it has been removed. The game has been dumbed down so many times since then it doesn't even resemble that game anymore.

Savage Roar had an appropriate duration, there was no pandemic BS, Bleeds were too long but the snapshotting made that irrelevant. Everybody still had all their abilities. Now everything is dumbed down and pruned to 4 buttons. If I wanted to play Diablo 3 then I would actually play Diablo 3.

It may still be the hardest spec but that isn't saying much anymore.

[Lucrece]

Everything is dumbed down anyways with a proper UI and weak auras to track everything and light up for you, anyways. So there's no point in dwelling with some polyanna complex about the good old days of the past (which they weren't, WoW for much of its existence has been an utter shitfest to hybrids).

[Deleted]

has anyone deeply tested mythic+ as a feral on beta? I did some but that was before the shadow trash nerf...so I am wondering if we are a viable choice or if it will be like the whole WOD CM "are you a feral? no thx" thing again.

[Lucrece]

has anyone deeply tested mythic+ as a feral on beta? I did some but that was before the shadow trash nerf...so I am wondering if we are a viable choice or if it will be like the whole WOD CM "are you a feral? no thx" thing again.

You're not an aoe spec, so you're not optimal. You will definitely have a harder time trying to get accepted into pugs.

You can circumvent that by running a guild group with real aoe classes who can compensate for you while you shine in bosses.

[Gemini Soul]

Hopefully next week when Legion goes live, they push out some Artifact changes for Feral. It's so sad and such poor design that feral has 1 golden trait (Open Wounds) that is not worth the ArtPow spent on it when there are so many minor traits where that same power spent can be used to give a bigger DPS increase.

[Lucrece]

Hopefully next week when Legion goes live, they push out some Artifact changes for Feral. It's so sad and such poor design that feral has 1 golden trait (Open Wounds) that is not worth the ArtPow spent on it when there are so many minor traits where that same power spent can be used to give a bigger DPS increase.

It's not just feral.

Windwalker has a golden artifact called Death Art. It's a trait that reduces the cooldown of touch of death by 80% if it fails to do damage (meaning, you wasted the cooldown or used it wrong on a mob that died quickly so the cooldown didn't work), or if you get a killing blow with it (never in a raid, because it's a 7 second delay on damage delivery and raid mobs are not reliably finished off by it, so basically only useful in open world leveling).

Windwalker also has a worthless 9% dodge trait in the artifact tree, a DPS class that will not make use of that dodge in a raid because it means you're either the target of boss aggro, and a 9% dodge won't save you, and raidwide aoe physical damage is not only rare but also not subject to dodging.

Many classes are stuck with worthless traits. Meanwhile, demonhunter doesn't have a single bad one. In fact, they get a 12% magic damage reduction, which is effectively a 12% raid damage reduction as most raid damage is magical damage.

Rogues get a baseline form of Renewal every 30 seconds instead of 2 minutes, without paying a talent for it. Subtlety rogue with soothing darkness talent and crimson vial heals for 66% of their HP every 30 seconds.

That's on top of having cloak already. In many cases pure DPS classes not only have better defensive cooldowns and utility; they now have better self healing than most hybrids.

[Gemini Soul]

It's not just feral.

Windwalker has a golden artifact called Death Art. It's a trait that reduces the cooldown of touch of death by 80% if it fails to do damage (meaning, you wasted the cooldown or used it wrong on a mob that died quickly so the cooldown didn't work), or if you get a killing blow with it (never in a raid, because it's a 7 second delay on damage delivery and raid mobs are not reliably finished off by it, so basically only useful in open world leveling).

Windwalker also has a worthless 9% dodge trait in the artifact tree, a DPS class that will not make use of that dodge in a raid because it means you're either the target of boss aggro, and a 9% dodge won't save you, and raidwide aoe physical damage is not only rare but also not subject to dodging.

Many classes are stuck with worthless traits. Meanwhile, demonhunter doesn't have a single bad one. In fact, they get a 12% magic damage reduction, which is effectively a 12% raid damage reduction as most raid damage is magical damage.

Rogues get a baseline form of Renewal every 30 seconds instead of 2 minutes, without paying a talent for it. Subtlety rogue with soothing darkness talent and crimson vial heals for 66% of their HP every 30 seconds.

That's on top of having cloak already. In many cases pure DPS classes not only have better defensive cooldowns and utility; they now have better self healing than most hybrids.

Death Art is a minor trait not a golden trait

its a minor survivability trait and you can dodge non-magic based AoE, all specs have these type of traits.

[Lucrece]

Survivability traits vary in usefulness.

Compare a 12% magic reduction to 10% armor increase (in a game where most of the damage, especially in pvp, now ignores armor), or a garbage 9% dodge.

Survivability traits were not created equal, and the fact is you need to sink artifact power into marginal traits whereas other classes sink artifact power into traits that may not yield dps gains but offer widespread protection.

[teddabear]

Rogues get a baseline form of Renewal every 30 seconds instead of 2 minutes, without paying a talent for it. Subtlety rogue with soothing darkness talent and crimson vial heals for 66% of their HP every 30 seconds.

That's on top of having cloak already. In many cases pure DPS classes not only have better defensive cooldowns and utility; they now have better self healing than most hybrids.

Why would Rogues bother with healing when they can't be killed. They have an invulnerability talent.

[Webdev]

I was actually thinking that Open Wounds is pretty good plain dps increase, since you aim 98%+ rip uptime anyway? "Your attacks" means all attacks and abilities and bleeds, right? Or maybe it's just weaker trait comparing to other classes/specs and their dps increase? I'm pretty sure all have kinda "meh" traits which you basically get only to proceed further.

But i have another question about this artifact tree. Here, wowhead.com/artifact-calc/druid/feral/G2LgI6BIEBSEAUhQFIYBSJA0igNIwDSNA0jgNS8B, when you take Scent of Blood trait, is it better to invest into berserk first (going left) ? Or you will need to go for 3x bites traits to open Ashamane's Bite golden trait asap? Wondering whether 15% plain dps increase (3x berserk traits) is worth even if you don't wanna go for Shadow Thrash.

[Deleted]

Ashamane's bite is the best trait by quite a bit no?

Pretty sure the best path is just to rush for it as fast as possible and skipping OW.

[Deleted]

Hopefully next week when Legion goes live, they push out some Artifact changes for Feral. It's so sad and such poor design that feral has 1 golden trait (Open Wounds) that is not worth the ArtPow spent on it when there are so many minor traits where that same power spent can be used to give a bigger DPS increase.

(Single-Target)
DPS increase per point invested:
Ashamane's Bite: 37 380
Razor Fangs: 6 857
Open Wounds: 4 834
Tear the Flesh: 4 728
Ashamane's Energy: 4 274
Feral Instinct: 2 351
Feral Power: 2 218
"Powerful" Bite: 356

[Deleted]

Guys one important question:

I didn't played feral since 2013.

What should i watch for now to snapshot and maximize damage of my Rip and Rake? Blood Talons, Savage Roar and Tiger's Fury only? They getting damage buff for full duration right?

What if i put RIP with out savage roar and then i use Savage Roar - will my rip be stronger?

[Deleted]

I think this is the most optimal way to rush for Ashamane's Bite and don't loose important nodes.
(Sorry, I can't post links)
wowhead.com/artifact-calc/druid/feral/IMDzI6BIEBSCAUgwFIUBSGAUhwFIgDSKA0iwNI4DSPA1LwE

[Reiziger]

I was actually thinking that Open Wounds is pretty good plain dps increase, since you aim 98%+ rip uptime anyway? "Your attacks" means all attacks and abilities and bleeds, right? Or maybe it's just weaker trait comparing to other classes/specs and their dps increase? I'm pretty sure all have kinda "meh" traits which you basically get only to proceed further.

But i have another question about this artifact tree. Here, wowhead.com/artifact-calc/druid/feral/G2LgI6BIEBSEAUhQFIYBSJA0igNIwDSNA0jgNS8B, when you take Scent of Blood trait, is it better to invest into berserk first (going left) ? Or you will need to go for 3x bites traits to open Ashamane's Bite golden trait asap? Wondering whether 15% plain dps increase (3x berserk traits) is worth even if you don't wanna go for Shadow Thrash.

What? Bleeds already ignore armor. The only thing OW does is make ur autoattacks and shreds ignore armor (and FB, but we never use that so well). Because bleeds are such a huge part of our DMG, OW is pretty garbage.

As for your question, just rush Ashamane's Bite at all costs. AB should be your first golden trait. Go along the bottom half.

[deepr]

Played Feral on and off since Vanilla and I'm kind of enjoying it again (probably because I took a long break).
I hope the Affinity talents becomes more useful later on... Bearform can hardly do anything when you choose Resto affinity.
I also noticed a bug: Predatory Swiftness says "castable in all forms" but if you cast Healing Touch on proc in Bear form you return to normal form.

[Rivin]

Guys one important question:

I didn't played feral since 2013.

What should i watch for now to snapshot and maximize damage of my Rip and Rake? Blood Talons, Savage Roar and Tiger's Fury only? They getting damage buff for full duration right?

What if i put RIP with out savage roar and then i use Savage Roar - will my rip be stronger?

No, it won't. You have to have Savage Roar up before you apply bleeds for them to benefit from it.