[Feral] Legion Discussion

[darklogrus]

So does Feral have a soft cap or a stat cap where anything afterwards has diminishing returns and another stat taking over would improve? Right now I have a bunch of necks and rings and im trying to figure out whether or not they are a better choice, The App Pawns seems to tell me 1 thing, but something like AMR tells me something a bit different.

Current: New
Crit: 33% > 35%
Haste: 18% > 14%
Mastery: 52% > 48%
Versatility: 1% > 6%

The new gear also isnt taking into acct the 3 empty sockets I have with it. So thats another 450-600 more Mastery/Crit.

Edit: also the new items are missing 3 enchants as well. An isnt included in the "New" stats.

[Deleted]

I see a lot of ferals taking Blood Scent over Lunar Inspiration now. Has that become superior?

DPS-wise, both talent are pretty close to each other, with LI overtaking BS in cleave scenarios. The value from BS comes in helping smooth out the rotation a lot more after the crit reduction we got (flat -5% crit, plus the little bit extra we lost due to them changing the scaling rating).

[teddabear]

I see a lot of ferals taking Blood Scent over Lunar Inspiration now. Has that become superior?

My guess is they are still about the same but the nerf to crit rates OoC made the rotation too clunky without Bloodscent.

[ghostydog]

Blood Scent and LI are indeed pretty close on single target, but BS tends to pull ahead with low crit/high mastery stat distribution, or high agility in general. The difference isn't gigantic (I've had it range from 2k to 9k DPS).

[Zanzha]

Bs was pretty far ahead in high gear even before the change to our passive crit

[Ridcully]

Hey kitties, can you give some rough estimate of how much dps loss is icy-veins easy mode talent setup compared to optimal one? I need a dps spec for my bear and starting feral is a bit overwhelming.

Edit: Nevermind, ran simulations. 294k easy-mode talents, 422k optimal talents.

[Thorim]

Anyone got any thoughts about the new trinkets in NH? Lets say you have an 875 Eye of Guarm and an 885 Chaos Talisman, will the ones from normal and/or HC NH be better?

[teddabear]

Felt a small tiny loss as well but that could be due to a bad cycle which was before compensated by OoC and is no longer, or bad itemisation which the sec stat shift might have made a bit more "fragile". Globally I agree with what Lycanoth said. There's really nothing wrong with the feral atm, we just got our damage execution smoothed out a bit. But god... Why is our Ret pally still at 1.2M dps after 1min of Mythic Guarm ? It's the feeling of those other classes being frankly overtuned that makes us feel feral is in a bad spot... Raidwise at least. Changes for mythic+ seem overall to be pretty good.

24th out of 24 in Nighthold so far.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount

I think it is safe to say the spec needs some work, especially considering Feral has some of the weakest set bonuses in the tier.

[Whitepaw]

24th out of 24 in Nighthold so far.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount

I think it is safe to say the spec needs some work, especially considering Feral has some of the weakest set bonuses in the tier.

Ofc it doesn't, you're reading it wrong and [insert random bullying BS here for added effect].

In other news, I see Guiltyas is now raiding on his undead rogue in NH - transmogged to Dreamwalker!

[Lucrece]

Rogue is mongoloid version of druid, except with far more flexibility given 3 specs, far more utility, and with cheat death and cloak the ability to ignore mechanics as well.

Shroud of Concealment is also ridiculous for mythic+. Between that, the ability of gouge to interrupt protected casts, and 2 specs being in top 3 dps rogues are the best melee of the expansion by far.

Assassination rolls its face over the keyboard and trounces feral DPS.

[Whitepaw]

Rogue is mongoloid version of druid, except with far more flexibility given 3 specs, far more utility, and with cheat death and cloak the ability to ignore mechanics as well.

Shroud of Concealment is also ridiculous for mythic+. Between that, the ability of gouge to interrupt protected casts, and 2 specs being in top 3 dps rogues are the best melee of the expansion by far.

Assassination rolls its face over the keyboard and trounces feral DPS.

That about Assassination Rogue being a "mongoloid version of druid" - I assume that means that it's just an incredibly easy spec to play and master?

I don't think that is correct, even if it's often repeated. Have a look at https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748968342. The author has written a guide to Assassination Rogue which, at 5600 words (or 17 pages) is quite thorough. After reading it, I think it's fair to say that Assassination Rogue is in fact NOT that easy to master.

[Lucrece]

That about Assassination Rogue being a "mongoloid version of druid" - I assume that means that it's just an incredibly easy spec to play and master?

I don't think that is correct, even if it's often repeated. Have a look at https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748968342. The author has written a guide to Assassination Rogue which, at 5600 words (or 17 pages) is quite thorough. After reading it, I think it's fair to say that Assassination Rogue is in fact NOT that easy to master.

It is child's play compared to feral. Especially if you do not play Exsanguinate which is what most people do because the Exsanguinate spec is inferior.

[Zanzha]

In other news, I see Guiltyas is now raiding on his undead rogue in NH - transmogged to Dreamwalker!

I'll take what are splitraids? for $500 Jim.

[Deleted]

Ofc it doesn't, you're reading it wrong and [insert random bullying BS here for added effect].

In other news, I see Guiltyas is now raiding on his undead rogue in NH - transmogged to Dreamwalker!

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...52/unknown.png

Here's my stream title, as i answered when you asked in my stream chat (https://gyazo.com/627f300c14c3b12fdc2230b8483106cb) last night I'm raiding on my rogue AS AN ALT in SPLIT RAIDS, for those unfamiliar with raiding a split raid is when you split up your raid into two groups and have half the raid play on their mains and half on their alts, this means you essentially get twice as much loot as you would have gotten from a normal heroic clear meaning that you can kit more raiders out in tier and get more of the good trinkets spread out through your raid. As an aside, what does my rogue's transmog have to do with anything? O.o do you have some kind of philosophical opposition to a rogue using a druid transmog?

for those curious here are my armories

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...erfme/advanced - Rogue (MY ALT FOR THOSE STILL STRUGGLING)

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ltyas/advanced - Druid (My main)

The current state of feral is exactly the same as it was in both EN and TOV, nothing has changed numberically, however the context of the field has changed classes that perform well in other areas have pulled ahead of feral in it's strengths, due to some pretty significant buffs, in the context of EN and TOV i don't believe it was justifiable to ask for feral buffs, in the current context, sure feral could use some love.

I do think those statistics are not totally representative as there's a lot of padding potential in NH, for example taking purely anecdotal evidence from tichondrius split raids last night, our spriests alt (a boomkin) beat my rogue by a good chunk on overall damage, however he's starfalling and dotting the bloods in order to kill them off while i'm tunneling the boss.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps - if we look at boss damage (which is the area feral competes in) Feral is middle of the pack, in a position which could probably require some loves but without the hyperbole of 24 OUT OF 24 WE'RE THE WORST SPEC IN THE GAME AAAAAA.

Taking the anecdotal example i just mentioned

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...sdps&boss=1862

Boss damage on tichondrius, feral upper middle of the pack boomkin almost dead last (*gasp*).

when we then filter this to overall damage

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ount&boss=1862

SHOCK HORROR

boomkin moves into the top 4 and feral drops into the lower quarter

destroy boomkins i guess?

Spellblade auriel, high botanist, star auger, chromatic anomaly exactly the same story

oops forgot somethin, In regards to our tier being weak this isn't accurate. Feral's tier from 0-4pc is around 7.6% which is entirely reasonable considering basically every classes tier ranges from 6-9%. Feral is exactly smack dab in the middle of that range and is actually in the upper quartile for strength of tier overall, we talked to blizz on ptr about having our set buffed but due to some intercompany issues they chose not to change mechanics of our set and decided to focus on buffing the 4pc to make the 2pc good (for the record the 2pc does provide a small dps increase)

[Deleted]

I do think those statistics are not totally representative as there's a lot of padding potential in NH, for example taking purely anecdotal evidence from tichondrius split raids last night, our spriests alt (a boomkin) beat my rogue by a good chunk on overall damage, however he's starfalling and dotting the bloods in order to kill them off while i'm tunneling the boss.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps - if we look at boss damage (which is the area feral competes in) Feral is middle of the pack, in a position which could probably require some loves but without the hyperbole of 24 OUT OF 24 WE'RE THE WORST SPEC IN THE GAME AAAAAA.

Raid keeping feral sitting on boss while better classes deal mechanisms (priority adds etc) is ALSO padding. Instead of feral sitting dpsing boss raid could put in same role many other classes and those other classes would do just same or more single target dps on boss. Except those other classes could when needed switch to adds, aoe much more effiently etc.

[Tradu]

Raid keeping feral sitting on boss while better classes deal mechanisms (priority adds etc) is ALSO padding. Instead of feral sitting dpsing boss raid could put in same role many other classes and those other classes would do just same or more single target dps on boss. Except those other classes could when needed switch to adds, aoe much more effiently etc.

No, the Feral sitting on the boss while others kill adds is called efficiency. Utilizing what different specs are best at.

[lotj]

Raid keeping feral sitting on boss while better classes deal mechanisms (priority adds etc) is ALSO padding. Instead of feral sitting dpsing boss raid could put in same role many other classes and those other classes would do just same or more single target dps on boss. Except those other classes could when needed switch to adds, aoe much more effiently etc.

Padding is when you do things detrimental to the raid's success to increase your dps. Using an AoE rotation to damage the tentacles on Xavius is probably the best example - you never actually kill them, and those are resources that could be better spent killing the boss.

Having a feral sit on the boss means you either kill the boss or get out of the phase quicker. That directly benefits the raid and is more about efficient use of resources than padding.

[Lycanoth]

The 2pc is a situational increase because you will not benefit from that on every fight.

I managed to get 2pc and on cleave/AoE fights it is nice but I swapped the cloak off on Star Augur and will probably be doing the same the next time I kill Trilliax and Krosus.

It is nice to see Feral has gone up on logs but I still think the spec is slightly undertuned right now.

[lotj]

I for one am still simming for 600k on 7.1.5 I would hardly call that weak, granted solid gear and bis legendaries but that's still on the upper end of the spectrum by /alot/

Just posted this to reddit, and am mentioning it here as well.

Dug through the Sim-C code and it looks like they didn't implement Fangs of the First until 7.1.5r1. That's the reason it looks like we were buffed in SimCraft - it wasn't in 7.1.0r3. When I zero out the paragon trait for my class, Sim-C shows a 4% nerf from 7.1.0 to 7.1.5.

[Deleted]

Just posted this to reddit, and am mentioning it here as well.

Dug through the Sim-C code and it looks like they didn't implement Fangs of the First until 7.1.5r1. That's the reason it looks like we were buffed in SimCraft - it wasn't in 7.1.0r3. When I zero out the paragon trait for my class, Sim-C shows a 4% nerf from 7.1.0 to 7.1.5.

oh my god your retarded fucking ass is here as well. We know full well that fangs of the first father wasn't implemented until 7.1.5, because we actually talk to the person who implements it jesus christ. As to your numbers, please provide them, because over the litterally dozen's of profiles we've looked at it has been at most around a 1% change.

Infracted