17 years ago Clinton bombed Yugoslavia without a UN mandate

[Independent voter]

I guess this is what triggered Cybran

Former Bosnian Serb leader Karadzic convicted of genocide, gets 40-year sentence

Meanwhile Clinton is a free man.

[Crispin]

Wait what?

Its cybran, everyone West of Russia are neo-nazis in his eyes.

[Deleted]

Its cybran, everyone West of Russia are neo-nazis in his eyes.

Nono, I mean I have no doubts there were German neo-nazis fighting in the war, it's his other claim that makes no sense to me, as I can't find any mention of it anywhere.

[Crispin]

Nono, I mean I have no doubts there were German neo-nazis fighting in the war, it's his other claim that makes no sense to me, as I can't find any mention of it anywhere.

Well it's cybran, he'll bring up every conspiracy theory along with some home cooked ones.

[Cybran]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33345618

In the nearby town of Travnik, that had been almost equally Muslim, Croatian and Serb before the war, the foreigners helped drive out thousands, and tried to impose Sharia law on those who remained. They were also involved in kidnapping local Christians, and beheaded one, Dragan Popovic, forcing other captives to kiss his severed head.

'They did Bosnia a disservice'

The Popovic case eventually went to court, so the facts have been well established. But the Mujahideen Battalion was also suspected in many others including the kidnap and murder of aid workers as well as the execution of 20 Croatian prisoners.

The foreigners never amounted to more than one per cent of the fighting force at the disposal of the Sarajevo government, despite the frequent claims of the Serb and Croatian media to have spotted Islamic fanatics from abroad just about everywhere. From an early stage the Mujahideen also started recruiting Bosnians and, by 1995, in the final months of the war, the incorporation of several hundred local men allowed the outfit to be expanded into the Mujahideen Brigade, around 1,500 strong.

By the summer of 1993, the Sarajevo government was starting to wake up to the potentially toxic effect of these jihadists on their image as a multi-ethnic, secular republic. So, in an attempt to control it, the battalion was placed under the command of III Corps, the Bosnian Army formation headquartered in the central city of Zenica.
Its commander at the time, Brigadier General Enver Hadzihasanovic, ended up facing a war crimes trial in the Hague on charges of overall responsibility for some of the Mujahideen's behaviour, including the Travnik kidnappings. In the end, the prosecution dropped those charges, but the general served two years, having been found guilty of having (Bosnian) troops under him who had abused prisoners.

From the outset, the general had felt the Mujahideen were a dubious military asset, and wrote a secret message to army chiefs in 1993, saying: "My opinion is that behind [the Mujahideen] there are some high-ranking politicians and religious leaders." Reflecting now on the jihadists' participation in the war he adds, "they didn't help Bosnia at all, on the contrary, I think they did Bosnia a disservice."
However, as the general's 1993 memo implied, there were some leaders, including Alija Izetbegovic, Bosnia's President at the time, who were happy to welcome the foreign fighters, partly as a way of keeping wealthy Arab donors sweet.

There were thousands of mujahideen foreign fighters under direct control of the Bosnian government. They were killing Serbian christians and the Americans and British were on their side. You would have to be an idiot to ignore that.

[Mihalik]

Wait what?

Welcome to Cybran-verse. The universe were reality said- Fuck it! I quit! ...and then drowned itself in a river of vodka while intensely masturbating to a photo of Vlad Putin.

[Sorshen]

UN is a joke btw.

[Slant]

German neo-nazis were very active in Croatia and Bosnia. They fought side by side with the Afghan jihadists sponsored by the USA.

Oh my friend, you never cease to amaze...

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Funny you say that. I remember watching a youtube vid that more or less blamed the destruction of Yugoslavia primarily on Germany and the US, that they heavily pressured for independent states for Croatia and Slovenia economically. That and selling guns to the Croats.

Whether that's true or not...*shrugs*.

From talking to Yugoslavians that live here, it's a bit more complicated than that, I think. Basically, Tito dun fucked up when he forced different ethnicities and nations to just be one state all of a sudden. They never got over their differences. If the West has pushed them over the brink, which I don't know but why the hell not, if they did that, it certainly didn't need much of a push.

[Deleted]

Oh my friend, you never cease to amaze...

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From talking to Yugoslavians that live here, it's a bit more complicated than that, I think. Basically, Tito dun fucked up when he forced different ethnicities and nations to just be one state all of a sudden. They never got over their differences. If the West has pushed them over the brink, which I don't know but why the hell not, if they did that, it certainly didn't need much of a push.

Most everyone I talked to here revered Tito and while not pining for Yugoslavias reformation...it certainly was definitely a boon period for all countries in the union. But yeah, nationalism definitely played a huge , if not the most important part of the destruction of Yugoslavia. No one after Tito could have kept all of them in check for the greater good.

[Crispin]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33345618



There were thousands of mujahideen foreign fighters under direct control of the Bosnian government. They were killing Serbian christians and the Americans and British were on their side. You would have to be an idiot to ignore that.

Why are you quoting BBC now? I thought they were part of the western media conspiracy to brainwash us all?

[Belize]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33345618



There were thousands of mujahideen foreign fighters under direct control of the Bosnian government. They were killing Serbian christians and the Americans and British were on their side. You would have to be an idiot to ignore that.

Probably because the Bosnian Serb were you know... committing genocide against them.

People don't usually go quietly to these kind of things...

But don't let silly things like facts get in the way Cybran. Tell how it really happened.

[Stop Pretending]

Who did Clinton "rape", Cryban?

[Mihalik]

Who did Clinton "rape", Cryban?

Serbia.

[Slant]

Most everyone I talked to here revered Tito and while not pining for Yugoslavias reformation...it certainly was definitely a boon period for all countries in the union. But yeah, nationalism definitely played a huge , if not the most important part of the destruction of Yugoslavia. No one after Tito could have kept all of them in check for the greater good.

I think Tito was more a hero for some sort of liberation than the forced unification of Yugoslavia. Many people were not happy about it after all as it turned out during the civil war. Not sure how they feel about Tito these days, but I was talking historically.

[Desparil]

There is really good documentary about whole ex-yugoslavia and what led to war and it includes 1999 bombardment
The Weight of Chains 2010 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1789083/
it was shown on most national tv stations in europe so some might have seen it, its pretty impartial and Michael Moore fans will love style of it.

[Deleted]

I think Tito was more a hero for some sort of liberation than the forced unification of Yugoslavia. Many people were not happy about it after all as it turned out during the civil war. Not sure how they feel about Tito these days, but I was talking historically.

Eh...a lot of the things I hear was how happy people were during it, people had jobs....1 month vacations, not really any housing issues. That's what he's mostly remembered for here, not his participation in the partizan. But either way, I never hear a bad thing about him.

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The NATO intervention was fine without the UN mandate. Even if the Albanians were basically terrorists, it at least prevented the Serbs from committing another genocide. Now what happened later with Kosovo's independence wasn't right and it directly gave Russians permission to take Crimea. But what can you do...

Srbi so na žalost v 90ih letih naredili preveč sranja, da bi jih katerakoli sosednja država podpirala. Glede tega so si sami krivi in tu ni debate.

To be mildly fair to the Serbs...they did have some legit gripes with the Croats following WW2...which while not an excuse or reason (there isn't a good one for "ethnic cleansing") , does explain some of the nationalist pride during WW1 and pretty much up til Milosevich was out of power. Well..that and being shit on since the battle of Kosovo.

[GennGreymane]

CYbran

What UN mandate did Russia have to go into Ukraine?

[Skroe]

Yugoslavia broke up in 1992. You mean it's successor states.

Also there is a delicious historic irony in the former Yugoslavia joining NATO in piecemeal status, and Serbia moving to join the EU by 2020-ish. As a EU country, under the Lisbon Treaty NATO get's first-look rights to all European security issues.

It's okay Cybran, you get to watch the sequel as an adult. What happened in Yugoslavia in the 1990s is whats in store for the Russian Federation in decades ahead.

Happy Anniversary!

[Deleted]

Yugoslavia broke up in 1992. You mean it's successor states.

Also there is a delicious historic irony in the former Yugoslavia joining NATO in piecemeal status, and Serbia moving to join the EU by 2020-ish. As a EU country, under the Lisbon Treaty NATO get's first-look rights to all European security issues.

It's okay Cybran, you get to watch the sequel as an adult. What happened in Yugoslavia in the 1990s is whats in store for the Russian Federation in decades ahead.

Happy Anniversary!

Eh...technically speaking his use of Yugoslavia is correct, just..Yugoslavia minus everyone but the Serbs and Montenegro. Still the same state..just...smaller. *shrugs*.

[Cybran]

It's okay Cybran, you get to watch the sequel as an adult.

2 of the September 11 hijackers had fought in Bosnia. Your government supported them in their war against Christian Serbia and you got what was coming. The sequel will come from the cockroaches scurrying from Syria to USA and Europe.

I hope you are ready for the your comeuppance.