1. #1

    Mythic Archimonde - please send help!

    Hi everyone, I'm here looking for some tips/advice on how I can help our guild make Mythic Archimonde dead so we can all get our 10 achievement points.

    1. What boss are you having trouble on?
    Mythic Archimonde

    2. What's your raid composition normally like?

    On any given night we usually have the following available:

    Tanks:
    2 x blood dks
    2 x guardian druids

    Melee:
    2 x feral druids
    3 x unholy/frost dks
    2 x enhancement shaman
    1 x ret paladin

    Range:
    2 x arcane mages
    1 x frost mage
    2 x warlocks
    3 x balance druids
    2 x hunters

    Healers:
    1 x resto shaman
    1 x resto druid
    1 x disc priest
    1 x mw monk
    2 x holy paladin


    3. How long have you been working on this fight?

    I believe we are approaching the 300 wipe mark as a guild. In our defense, there has been some roster turnover since we started prog on it though.

    4. What phase of the fight are you wiping at?

    I put our wipes in to 2 categories. Soft wipes - where people make stupid early mistakes (in phase 1-2) and we are down a brez and call a wipe. These are probably the most frustrating as we waste a lot of time on these.
    Hard wipes - we are getting to what I'd consider the 'hard' part of the fight, down in phase three getting to 2nd or 3rd set of infernals.

    5. What are people dying to?

    Unleashed torment and Wrought Chaos are the most common causes of death (besides running in to the green lava when a wipe's called). Phase 3 deaths are a wide spread of causes though I think.

    6. What have you tried already to fix #5?

    Unleashed torment and wrought chaos - everyone should be running weak auras/boss mods. We have a loose spread for wrought chaos but definitely nothing I'd describe as organised.
    Phase 3 we are using the mark of the legion weak aura to help with that part.

    We are using the 1 doomfire strat and making that dps check (although last night for early pulls we experimented with using lust a bit differently which is why the first few pulls look a bit hit or miss in terms of getting 1 or 2 doomfires).

    7. Do you have a World of Logs (or any other logging program/site) report for your raid?

    Last nights round of attempts i here:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pes=1&cutoff=4
    (we had an extra hunter last night that we normally don't have.

    Rest of our guild logs here:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/guilds/524

    In terms of logs, I've been focusing more on our longer attempts (where we are in phase 3). The causes of our early wipes are usually a bit more obvious so I probably haven't focused much attention on those to be honest, however if anyone has suggestions on how to stop them from happening I'd love to hear them.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    You have two main issues in P3 that are killing you.

    One is void stars knocking people off (on multiple wipes they'll smack people, causing deaths with no "cause" because they die from falling off the platform).

    The other is people dying when infernals land.

    Fix voidstars by assign specific ranged to specific stars - they always spawn in the same formation, so two for the melee, three for the ranged. Your setup has 3x hunters, assign one to each ranged star, and pair them with another ranged - say a boomkin on each side and the affliction lock on the middle back one. Have the arcane mages sit on the melee ones, one on each, if needs be. Lock/boomkin dots + starfalls on each ranged star + hunters focusing them should be plenty, no need to overkill.

    As for infernals KO'ing people when they land, you've only got 2x full wroughts usually, and a tick from one in the end as far as I can tell.
    You need cooldowns after each set of marks to hold your ground against the infernals; people are dying due to being low HP when infernals land, not to standing in meteors (3x 90K hits means max distance, but the 3-400K unhealed dmg from mark = death).

    Plan cooldowns accordingly. How are they at the moment? With 2x wroughts, I'd go:
    first wrought: Revival+Ring.
    Second wrought: Tide+Ascendance.

    Shouldn't need anything for the third.

    Ring's used at 50 seconds, infernals land at 3:30 roughly. This means you can healing ring for first infernals again.
    As they are 1 minute apart, this means that for the second set of infernals, Revival is ready again. Likewise, the third set you can counter with Ring, and the fourth set with Tide+Ascendance.

    It's important to remember that infernals landing *will never kill* a full HP person if they don't stand inside any of the meteor-impacts. It'll (at most) do 400K or so out of their 500K+ healthpool if they're at full HP. Start smashing cooldowns as soon as mark damage goes out so everyone's topped going in, and there's nothing to worry about. Don't wait till people are getting hit.


    Lastly, your tactic for infernals seems borderline silly. You've got three death knights, and in none of the replays I'm watching do either of them grip infernals apart. Why. Just why. One DK grips to each melee side, and you've got a backup. Either have them talent for the 5 second stun, or have them run unglyphed grip; No reason they should be running off again towards the ranged after they get gripped. I see melee running into ranged to kill infernals on most replays I've watched through, that's just silly.
    When you get to four waves, you grip two with DKs, and have a hunter taunt to each ranged camp with distracting shot.


    How do you do DPS cooldowns in last phase? You should aim to use ring on third infernals - those are the most difficult for DPS due to the way the waves line up. It means you'll be holding the ring for awhile (second wave at 4:30, 30 seconds after it becomes available), but in a worst-case scenario where you can't push the boss before fifth wave of infernals, you get to use ring and burn the boss and hope for the best aswell.

    Also not entirely related, but NO. Just NO. You do not have 2x Arcane mages and a frost mage. You have 2x Arcane mages and a mage that sits on the bench till he learns how to play all 3 specs of his pure-dps class. You're 12/13 mythic for fuck sake.

  3. #3
    Deleted
    Dracodraco pretty much covered most of it.

    I'm just curious to how some people in your raid have close to zero damage done on certain adds, even though there for all attempts. The biggest slacker here being your affliction warlock which is basicly tunneling the boss hard. Things like this just cannot exist when you are doing the last boss in the instance on the hardest difficulty. I'm a warlock myself, but it is just a coincidence that one is your warlock that needs to shape up. In our first kill and on our farm kills I'm most of the time top damage on Infernals as affliction AND destro.

    So your warlock did this amount of damage during 33 attempts:

    Doomfire: 264k. This is basicly a SINGLE Soulswap in one attempt, so ignoring these.
    Deathcaller: 1.25m. The ring did most of the damage. Also ignoring this add.
    Infernals: 2.04m. One of your hunters did 14m damage. A warlock should be carrying Infernal dps. Tell your warlock to save up Soul shards and Soulswap onto every infernal until out of Soul shards or play Destro that is an issue.
    Void Star: 103k. Completely ignores them.

    Compared to everyone else your warlock is ignoring every single add. Even though top damage on boss overall, your warlock is hurting the raid and letting other dps kill everything else. You need to tell people in your raid to start dpsing the correct targets since there cannot be players that get carried by others like this.
    Last edited by mmocfee494da34; 2016-03-31 at 01:54 AM.

  4. #4
    I'd argue that Doomfire is acceptable out of those, Macks. 2x mages with prismatic crystals, 3x hunters with chimera (and killshot snipe), 2x enhs and ferals with soul caps, starfalls, etc... As long as Affli hurts their singletarget burst by hitting a secondary target, him not touching the doomfire should be more than fine.

    It does bring something else to my attention when taking a closer look though;

    Why are both the DKs playing fucking *necrotic plague* when you say you lack burst-dps to 1-doomfire without outside help.
    Dks are not good at burst. But they are exceptionally bad when they go Necrotic-fucking-plague over BoS. At that point it's just them taking the easy way out and refusing to learn to play their class properly, which is just sad. I mean, fuck it, I'll go NP on my tank-alt's offspec if I'm requried to DPS, because fuck keeping up with alt-offspecs that aren't intuitive; But their MAIN class and spec? Eh.

    (Also why the everliving FUCK are the dks trying to use the class trinket some pulls. Lol'd).

  5. #5
    3 hours of wipes and most raiders not using Healing Tonic once??
    Im sorry to tell you but the warlock is good for porting at best(especially checking logs on different bosses)
    Apart from him going full boss(which wont end will considering your melee heavy setup) he doesnt even time his 2min cd with ring

  6. #6
    I am Murloc!
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    Optimized better you shouldn't have any issues doing the 1 doomfire strat ever. We do it that way and rarely have wipes in P2 because of how it sets up. Essentially we start where he spawns in P2, move him to the middle, and then back to his starting position. A well timed ring right after he's positioned back at the door means you won't be dealing with the third wrought, essentially meaning that the only difficult one would be the second one that coincides with chains.

    I'm fine with warlocks not doing much damage to some of the priority adds during progression, but played correctly they should be one of your top damage on infernals. You essentially just save shards and swap to them if you're playing affliction, or if you're playing destruction you use havoc. The later ones are even better for this as a single warlock with CDs can eliminate one infernal pretty much by himself if Archimonde is sub 20% prior to them landing (which is normally the case on the "hard" infernals waves, basically wave 3 and 4).

    Aside from that there isn't much to do in P3 honestly. Just can't take direct hits from infernals, melee get close stars and ranged get the ones in the back. Don't really need any major DPS CDs for the first two waves of infernals. During progression we used potions and several CDs on the third wave of infernals, and used the ring on the fourth set of infernals. Now we just save the only ring we get in P3 for the third wave of infernals as the boss dies before or during the fourth set.

    Not sure why you have 2 arcane mages and 1 frost mage. Either one specialization is better or the other one is better. You're on the last boss, typically you don't play whatever you "feel" like playing.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Fix voidstars by assign specific ranged to specific stars - they always spawn in the same formation, so two for the melee, three for the ranged. Your setup has 3x hunters, assign one to each ranged star, and pair them with another ranged - say a boomkin on each side and the affliction lock on the middle back one. Have the arcane mages sit on the melee ones, one on each, if needs be. Lock/boomkin dots + starfalls on each ranged star + hunters focusing them should be plenty, no need to overkill.

    As for infernals KO'ing people when they land, you've only got 2x full wroughts usually, and a tick from one in the end as far as I can tell.
    You need cooldowns after each set of marks to hold your ground against the infernals; people are dying due to being low HP when infernals land, not to standing in meteors (3x 90K hits means max distance, but the 3-400K unhealed dmg from mark = death).
    Thanks this is definitely something we could try. Currently we don't have specific assignments for void starts and there were a few instances of stars travelling from the back of the room to punt melee.

    First up thanks for looking guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Lastly, your tactic for infernals seems borderline silly. You've got three death knights, and in none of the replays I'm watching do either of them grip infernals apart. Why. Just why. One DK grips to each melee side, and you've got a backup. Either have them talent for the 5 second stun, or have them run unglyphed grip; No reason they should be running off again towards the ranged after they get gripped. I see melee running into ranged to kill infernals on most replays I've watched through, that's just silly.
    Which ones were you looking at? Our strategy if they are bunched is to grip one left melee, one right melee, and leave the other up the back, like in these examples:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...=3&view=replay
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...21&view=replay
    As one of the DKs I've got no doubt we can improve but we were trying to follow that general strat. We're all running unglyphed grip as well.
    If melee are running to the ranged infernal (which is silly) I can only guess it's because it's still up after the front two have died. At a guess I'm thinking range may be targeting the ones in melee first potentially but not sure.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    It does bring something else to my attention when taking a closer look though;

    Why are both the DKs playing fucking *necrotic plague* when you say you lack burst-dps to 1-doomfire without outside help.
    Dks are not good at burst. But they are exceptionally bad when they go Necrotic-fucking-plague over BoS. At that point it's just them taking the easy way out and refusing to learn to play their class properly, which is just sad. I mean, fuck it, I'll go NP on my tank-alt's offspec if I'm requried to DPS, because fuck keeping up with alt-offspecs that aren't intuitive; But their MAIN class and spec? Eh.
    I said we were meeting the 1 doomfire dps check. Not sure what you mean by outside help? We lust on the pull if that's what you mean?

    In terms of necrotic plague, vast majority of DKS will run necrotic plague on mythic archi, particularly on prog. I've looked at a reasonable number of logs from both farm and prog kills and NP is pretty much the standard. If people have it on legit farm and your guilds not having any issues with add control then you can give BoS a run but we're clearly not at that point. We both regularly play BoS on other encounters and I'm pretty comfortable in saying that both of us would be more than happy to run BoS if we thought it'd help

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    (Also why the everliving FUCK are the dks trying to use the class trinket some pulls. Lol'd).
    This was just an experiment for a few pulls based on something one of the other DKs had heard/read somewhere. We gave it a shot and ditched it my gut feel was that for it to do enough dmg to be worth using the adds would need to be up far longer than we'd want them to anyway. For what it's worth I had a look at your most recent log and both your DKs run NP, and one of them was running the class trinket. On your prog kill they were both running NP and both running class trinket.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mackslol View Post
    Compared to everyone else your warlock is ignoring every single add. Even though top damage on boss overall, your warlock is hurting the raid and letting other dps kill everything else. You need to tell people in your raid to start dpsing the correct targets since there cannot be players that get carried by others like this.
    I think this comes back to a point Dracodraco made in that it was silly having melee run to infernals etc. If everyone switched I don't believe we'd see that sort of thing happening tbh.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinholder View Post


    [Which ones were you looking at? Our strategy if they are bunched is to grip one left melee, one right melee, and leave the other up the back, like in these examples:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...=3&view=replay
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...21&view=replay
    As one of the DKs I've got no doubt we can improve but we were trying to follow that general strat. We're all running unglyphed grip as well.
    If melee are running to the ranged infernal (which is silly) I can only guess it's because it's still up after the front two have died. At a guess I'm thinking range may be targeting the ones in melee first potentially but not sure.
    I looked at some of the longer ones where dks were running out to ranged to kill infernals because they weren't being dragged into melee; Not sure specifically which, as I picked like 6 random waves over a few of the logs.
    Realistically it doesn't matter if they're bunched or not. Your goal should be to get one infernal on each marked group every time, for consistency's sake.




    I said we were meeting the 1 doomfire dps check. Not sure what you mean by outside help? We lust on the pull if that's what you mean?

    In terms of necrotic plague, vast majority of DKS will run necrotic plague on mythic archi, particularly on prog. I've looked at a reasonable number of logs from both farm and prog kills and NP is pretty much the standard. If people have it on legit farm and your guilds not having any issues with add control then you can give BoS a run but we're clearly not at that point. We both regularly play BoS on other encounters and I'm pretty comfortable in saying that both of us would be more than happy to run BoS if we thought it'd help

    This was just an experiment for a few pulls based on something one of the other DKs had heard/read somewhere. We gave it a shot and ditched it my gut feel was that for it to do enough dmg to be worth using the adds would need to be up far longer than we'd want them to anyway. For what it's worth I had a look at your most recent log and both your DKs run NP, and one of them was running the class trinket. On your prog kill they were both running NP and both running class trinket.
    Probably another guy that said something about needing doomfire dps, then <.<. Get a fair few of those on various forums, so chances are I got them mixed up. If you're meeting the dps checks fine, fair enough; NP is the overall stronger talent for damage.
    The main issue is that the majority of that damage will be on adds, and it'll be over time. You'll do more damage to deathcallers, doggies, the sources (if left up) etc; Breaths damage comes in concentrated bursts. If your issue ever becomes burst, that's where you need to look to.
    Also, our DKs probably play it because it's the higher output talent and burst is entirely irrelevant for us, dps whores and all :P.

    As for the trinket, I legit haven't seen it used on anything but gorefiend and xhul since sometime last year before Ilvl upgrades :/.

  9. #9
    Zzzzz. Disc priest shielding a blood dk instead of doing some boss damage in p3. Your healers should combine for 5-6M damage in p3, I don't know what your healers are doing between marks. He's also using cascade (lmao) instead of Halo which can do 1m healing if timed right on each infernal wave and also managing to be beaten by your mw and rshaman on mark healing.

  10. #10
    You should have benched your Warlock long ago.

  11. #11
    Almost on ALL of your tries you have at least one death due to Shackles. Get a weakaura for it, learn to move out of shackles asap, never go back into shackle area before it is broken, and break them as soon as everybody is out. Also, deathcaller kills your tanks occasionally. Prioritize killing deathcaller in p2.

    Get your phases 1 and 2 straight first if you want to have more attempts in p3. Focusing on 2 descent wipes in p3, but ignoring 30 other attempts that ended in p1/2 is not efficient use of raid time.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Also not entirely related, but NO. Just NO. You do not have 2x Arcane mages and a frost mage. You have 2x Arcane mages and a mage that sits on the bench till he learns how to play all 3 specs of his pure-dps class. You're 12/13 mythic for fuck sake
    pretty sure if they are easily managing one doomfire and not wiping in p3 on 2%-3% each and every try, then having one mage playing frost instead of arcane is the absolute least of their worries (provided the mage is playing frost excellently and has the gear to actually perform on a somewhat similar level - theirs has a heroic xhul staff for archimonde progress, like wat?)
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2016-03-31 at 03:09 PM.

  13. #13
    This helped us when working on P3. Feel free to copy and use/edit as necessary to find the right setup for your group.
    Also, have a plan for which Crystals you're killing and which you're sacrificing. I think each Crystal you have to kill is equal to about 4% of the bosses health, so every little bit helps.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In addition to that, as others have mentioned, while you may know what the issues are in Phase 2, until you're getting into Phase 3 (cleanly) ~75% of the time, you're going to find it rough to make progress in that phase. Phase 3 isn't super hard, but you've got to get there enough to learn how to get through the rough patches. I'd spend your energy focusing on figuring out why people are failing on P2 mechanics so you're getting to P3 more.

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