Celestalon: "streaming interferes with the feedback process"

[clevin]

... Blizzard can't just cut off, deny or regulate streamers access; that's akin to censorship. And because it's easier to pander than to be objective, content creators will well, go the path of least resistance.

Sure they can. Who they let into the alpha or beta is entirely their choice and no, that's not censorship. They could even have done a NDAed alpha as they've done in the past and then be well within their rights to kick people out. Even without that they could kick people out. It's THIER IP. Just as I can invite you into my house and then kick you out, they can kick anyone out if they want to.

[Mhyroth]

When Blizzard sees it's negative they're there to blame the people.
When Blizzard sees it's positive they just shut up and let it do it's thing.
So all the free marketing is something you don't want ? Then don't send keys to Streamers or don't allow them to stream the content in the first place.
And if you rather invite (insert random female streamer) or whatever to play your Alpha instead of people who played the game for over 10 years to test and send feedback, well you shot yourself in the foot because all those Stream-viewers will comment on it, even though they can't test thing themselves.
Every positive thing also has a negative side, but blaming is something Blizzard seems really good at, and not in taking the blame.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Sure they can. Who they let into the alpha or beta is entirely their choice and no, that's not censorship. They could even have done a NDAed alpha as they've done in the past and then be well within their rights to kick people out. Even without that they could kick people out. It's THIER IP. Just as I can invite you into my house and then kick you out, they can kick anyone out if they want to.

There's a bit more complexity to inviting a streamer to an Alpha and or kicking them then inviting someone to a house and or kicking them out. That said the problem isn't necessarily easy. People here on MMO would be the first to qq about getting kicked out of Alpha/beta/ whatever

[Mafic]

Free marketing has a price.

Streamers are able to employ a wide audience to provide dialogue. What Celestalon is saying they want to limit dialogue of what they are doing.

When you prune you can't expect positive feedback. Streamers have a vested interest in the future of the game like Blizzard so they are providing feedback to ensure their streaming business continues to thrive. A stronger WoW is in the best interest of devs and streamers.

[Daffan]

Harmed ? No way

Just make more interest and people who don't speak up will now speak up.

I doubt people like Cdew do it for exterior motives at all (Not everyone even agrees with him in his own circle).... Maybe Towelliee does because he gets payed by Blizzard to say good things about everything and anything.

[SoulSoBreezy]

Sure they can. Who they let into the alpha or beta is entirely their choice and no, that's not censorship. They could even have done a NDAed alpha as they've done in the past and then be well within their rights to kick people out. Even without that they could kick people out. It's THIER IP. Just as I can invite you into my house and then kick you out, they can kick anyone out if they want to.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to state what is right or wrong, just assuming fan reaction. I'm pretty confident that's what the reaction would be, too.

[Mafic]

It is crunch time and there is pushback with Blizz design decisions. That is healthy for the game long term. If Blizz wants to blame on streamers sure they can do that, but the streamers are interested in a stronger WoW for Legion.

[Nyres]

There are two things to take from this Blizzard is finally releaizing giving priority to streamers doesn't always equalize good testers. At the same time even if they're not ideal their complaints are certianly just as valid. The other thing to take away is blizzard is now looking for scapegoats to blame for why their expansion might end up sub standard in terms of balancing or fun play style.

It seems like before they were perfectly happy with streamers being in because they gave them the feedback they wanted to hear. Now that they're hearing feedback they don't want to hear its suddenly the streamers fault because they are interfering with the feedback process and not Blizzard's fault for messing with things that weren't broken or radically changing things.

[Deleted]

Streamers love to post their exploits and what they dislike about the game, which allows many people without access to have an opinion also, whilst fixing any bugs noticed. My only worry is that I'm spoiling the surprise for myself on release, and if I got involved with feedback and it turns out they did the opposite, I would be disappointed so much it's unenjoyable

[Deficineiron]

Honestly what did blizzard expect? Not to say streamers cannot give good feedback, but this is not a new concept. Did they just notice this now?

a simple guess here would be that the decision to include media-types in the alpha was not made by a person with development background.

[Krazzorx]

I wouldn't consider this a "inviting streamers backfiring" problem necessarily. Because in addition to them being streamers, they are also extremely good pvp players who would've gotten in through those invites anyways. Particularly these latest invite waves where it seems like most 2200+ players got in

[Mafic]

There are two things to take from this Blizzard is finally releaizing giving priority to streamers doesn't always equalize good testers. At the same time even if they're not ideal their complaints are certianly just as valid. The other thing to take away is blizzard is now looking for scapegoats to blame for why their expansion might end up sub standard in terms of balancing or fun play style.

It seems like before they were perfectly happy with streamers being in because they gave them the feedback they wanted to hear. Now that they're hearing feedback they don't want to hear its suddenly the streamers fault because they are interfering with the feedback process and not Blizzard's fault for messing with things that weren't broken or radically changing things.

I would argue if it were not for the streamers the feedback on the alpha forums would become an echo chamber. There is a reason why for a scientific paper to published it has to be peer reviewed and often it is rejected multiple times by people that don't agree with the ideas of the paper and are critical of it. This forces constant improvement and iteration.

It seems to me since Blizz is running out of time they are running into some hard dead lines looming and they don't have time to do more "iterations". So, instead they blame the streamers when in fact they dragged their feet with an expansion that has been in development since WoD launched.

[Krazzorx]

What I think Celestalon is mostly saying is: hashtag campaigns.... not the most professional way to get across feedback which may in fact be good but it's hard to tell. Actually act professionally and it's easier to see the problem.

[Nyres]

I would argue if it were not for the streamers the feedback on the alpha forums would become an echo chamber. There is a reason why for a scientific paper to published it has to be peer reviewed and often it is rejected multiple times by people that don't agree with the ideas of the paper and are critical of it. This forces constant improvement and iteration.

It seems to me since Blizz is running out of time they are running into some hard dead lines looming and they don't have time to do more "iterations". So, instead they blame the streamers when in fact they dragged their feet with an expansion that has been in development since WoD launched.

Good point, actually on the echo chamber thing. Also if it is hard deadlines this a very subtle / questionable way to counter any "you didn't listen to our feedback" for stuff they just ignore this time around, just blame it on the streamers. Being in the WOD beta, there was so much stuff that just got flat out ignored and not reconized by blizzard during the beta and they never even addressed the fact that they ignored it. This time if they do that with some stuff they can spin it as it was ignored because it was due to streamers giving poor feedback or something like that.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

I thought this Alpha has been invaluable in regards to feedback and how much they've been focusing on design decisions. While there's still much work to be done, it's easily the most work I've seen in quite some time when it comes to listening and applying tweaks based on information they are given because of Streamers and their viewers. It's not all great (Ret T75,90,100 say hi) but they're making tons of changes with each new build and that's something we should all be grateful for.

Imagine if we didn't have alpha tests and we went in to beta without their feedback. That would be one huge beta and a headache for everyone because there's no third buffer to work things out before hitting live until content patches and bandaids are applied.

[Damajin]

I would argue if it were not for the streamers the feedback on the alpha forums would become an echo chamber. There is a reason why for a scientific paper to published it has to be peer reviewed and often it is rejected multiple times by people that don't agree with the ideas of the paper and are critical of it. This forces constant improvement and iteration.

It seems to me since Blizz is running out of time they are running into some hard dead lines looming and they don't have time to do more "iterations". So, instead they blame the streamers when in fact they dragged their feet with an expansion that has been in development since WoD launched.

It was supposed to be in development before that, which is why WoD was so bad. All their eggs were in the Legion basket and the fact that they've done so little with it makes me think these guys are doing their development planning from a room full of hammocks.

[Deleted]

Blizzard doesn't like hyperboling greedy f'cks who commit shitposts in form of Streams?

Who knew.

[hollafame]

They probably give priority to streamers because they want to keep people interested in WoW. I'm surprised they'd even be so open about Alpha considering the hatestorm that arose from announcing stuff too early that got removed. They probably just want to make the drought between the release Hellfire Citadel until Legion seem less extensive.

[arcaneshot]

Your own fault for giving streamers Alpha/Beta priority then. Get people who will actually test in.

You say that like Celestalon made the decision himself.

I mean, get real.

[clevin]

There's a bit more complexity to inviting a streamer to an Alpha and or kicking them then inviting someone to a house and or kicking them out. That said the problem isn't necessarily easy. People here on MMO would be the first to qq about getting kicked out of Alpha/beta/ whatever

Sure, but it's the same thing rights-wise. Obviously the PR fallout would suck. Doing so isn't 'censorship' no matter how many people misuse that word.