I Welcome Ability Pruning

[Lady Mormont]

Some classes have ability bloats, some don't. I hot key everything, and I just don't have enough room on my bars for my shaman now-a-days. Where-as some of my classes have enough room on my action bars to fit 20 more spells. But some utility needs to also stay, or classes just become about dps, tank, heal, which is kinda boring. Reducing abilities to reduce rotation complexity however, is not fun. Personally I like always having a button to press, and I never understood why people didn't like to be GCD capped, doesn't make since to me why peeps like standing there with nothing to do for 2-3 seconds that's truly boring.

[Mlz]

See the problem is exactly that you see every counter-argument to your thesis as blabbering. As long as you can not accept that people have other opinions as you do it is simply not possible to reconcile different opinions.

Why should the game be oversimplified to having only 2 dimensions which you reference? I myself tend to see the bigger picure in a holistic way.
The colors you referenced are still on the palette though. You still have the basic colors, the ones which are pruned are the mixed colors - you can still mix them and it even provides a bigger challenge that way.

Class fantasy is key to any good RPG - although there is still a way for you mechanically focused people to enjoy the tools you are given for min-max, it is still in the game.
The only difference I see is that every ability is tuned towards class fantasy instead of focusing solely on gameplay mechanics.

You don't need 36 different colors if you can have 12-20 distinctly for every class.

Okay, gratz on ignoring every single argument i presented.

First, you can try to project WoW as holistic but it still has different aspects to it - character gameplay is one of them. Character is the "inner" context whilst environment is the "external" context, they can have more aspects to them but you can't deny the character vs environment part (it's one of the main terminologies used in mmorpg context - PvE - rings a bell?). You're right about having the basic colours after pruning and the option to request couple of more colours (but using some colours will exclude using others) - I never argued that, but my point was rather that having all the palette available at any given time gives the option to paint a lot more colourful pictures. If you have 3 colours and you're supposed to paint 2 different pictures with it, they will definitely look more similar than 2 pictures painted with 15 colours.

Can you actually now try to reply to the points I was making without making out how your feels-based opinion is an argument? I explained why pruning leaves less room to class fantasy and I also explained how pruning removes a lot from min-maxing whilst NOT pruning caters for those who only choose to use 5 abilities and for those who like incorporating all of their abilities into their gameplay. 5x5 is less than 15x15, you can't twist maths. Character min-max is always separate to the min-max offered by external conditions which is why I'm bringing it up. You can have the latter regardless, the only thing we are arguing about is how we should approach charcter min-maxing. I say bigger skillgap, you say lower. You do NOT have to use all your abilities but that doesn't mean they should be removed because other people may want to use them.

[WhiteEagle888]

I don't mind that they have reduced the number of buttons. I am concerned if they are moving away from "easy to play, hard to master." A lot (if not all) of the "rotational mastery" type stuff has been removed. However, I've noticed that some of it has been moved into gear set bonuses. If gear set bonuses become the way you master your rotation, that could actually be interesting.

Interesting concept you mentioned here!
Maybe even the class specific legendaries coming in legion are a step towards this idea?

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Okay, gratz on ignoring every single argument i presented.

First, you can try to project WoW as holistic but it still has different aspects to it - character gameplay is one of them. Character is the "inner" context whilst environment is the "external" context, they can have more aspects to them but you can't deny the character vs environment part (it's one of the main terminologies used in mmorpg context - PvE - rings a bell?). You're right about having the basic colours after pruning and the option to request couple of more colours (but using some colours will exclude using others) - I never argued that, but my point was rather that having all the palette available at any given time gives the option to paint a lot more colourful pictures. If you have 3 colours and you're supposed to paint 2 different pictures with it, they will definitely look more similar than 2 pictures painted with 15 colours.

Can you actually now try to reply to the points I was making without making out how your feels-based opinion is an argument? I explained why pruning leaves less room to class fantasy and I also explained how pruning removes a lot from min-maxing whilst NOT pruning caters for those who only choose to use 5 abilities and for those who like incorporating all of their abilities into their gameplay. 5x5 is less than 15x15, you can't twist maths. Character min-max is always separate to the min-max offered by external conditions which is why I'm bringing it up. You can have the latter regardless, the only thing we are arguing about is how we should approach charcter min-maxing. I say bigger skillgap, you say lower. You do NOT have to use all your abilities but that doesn't mean they should be removed because other people may want to use them.

It all comes down whether you want to min-max, as I said it's still there even after pruning just with cooler abilities.
As I am personally not interested in the least in min-maxing you need to find someone else to argue about that.

[Niwes]

What are the abilities you guys miss most after the pruning and what did they do?
Chances are many were just getting reworked.

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XDXP

You can never have too much smileys, man.

ok. someone has to do it. i sacrifice myself and take the infraction.

because someone has to say it:

you are either 12 years old or a complete idiot. i personally think you are more stupid than a piece of wood. and i pray you leave that game as soon as possible, because ppl like you wow REALLY dont need.

sorry mate, but you are the most stupid internet jerk of the month for me.

Infracted [MoanaLisa]

[Deleted]

Raiders warned you all of the true cost of catering to monkeys who do lfr.

Why didn't you listen?

This is the future you chose.

[Darkeon]

I bet the original poster has the same IP as some of these forum's known "agitator\s"... but I digress.

On topic: Glad you are okay and welcome it. I, however, do not. Some pruning is alright and, to a degree, necessary. But it gets to a point where it's simply changing for the sake of dumbing down the game a bit further, not because of necessity.

[WhiteEagle888]

ok. someone has to do it. i sacrifice myself and take the infraction.

because someone has to say it:

you are either 12 years old or a complete idiot. i personally think you are more stupid than a piece of wood. and i pray you leave that game as soon as possible, because ppl like you wow REALLY dont need.

sorry mate, but you are the most stupid internet jerk of the month for me.

XD Like I give a fuck about your shity opinion asshole. Please uninstall WoW and then follow stalin into the grave

Infracted [MoanaLisa]

[Raiju]

If you want to play a 'pruned' spec there were plenty before WoD. Stop ruining the game for those who like the more complex ones by forcing every spec the same when you already have plenty of options.

[WhiteEagle888]

Raiders warned you all of the true cost of catering to monkeys who do lfr.

Why didn't you listen?

This is the future you chose.

Your days are over - the future is for those who actually care about the game now xd

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If you want to play a 'pruned' spec there were plenty before WoD. Stop ruining the game for those who like the more complex ones by forcing every spec the same when you already have plenty of options.

On the contrary I would like for every spec to be unique, hence the pruning of carbon copy abilities.

[Deleted]

I think ability pruning is a good thing. It lets them add more class defined abilities. Also hybrid classes like shaman and druids had way too many spells, some pruning was needed. I wish they would prune cc a bit from classes like mage and rogue. Even mobility is getting insane DH can cap flag in WSG in 23 sec and they will get even more mobility from mastery as the xpac ages.

[Raiju]

I think ability pruning is a good thing. It lets them add more class defined abilities. Also hybrid classes like shaman and druids had way too many spells, some pruning was needed. I wish they would prune cc a bit from classes like mage and rogue. Even mobility is getting insane DH can cap flag in WSG in 23 sec and they will get even more mobility from mastery as the xpac ages.

Except DH is not an issue with multi-expansion bloat, so pruning isn't going to help. The word you're looking for is balance/tuning.

[MoanaLisa]

Since the thread has degenerated into mostly insults and infractions I'm going to close it.

In any case, the place where spell reductions are being discussed is here:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...s-so-necessary