Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Tackhisis]

quest text and stuff was, is and likely will always be clientside.

They are not.

and included a bios of the console.

No, they were using Connectix BIOS, created by disassembling the real one, but different. ROM dumps are illegal.

That thing is called MaNGOS and you can download a legitimate copy of it.

Mangos cannot run a server by itself: it won't even run. You need an absolutely illegal database data to setup the server.

You cannot not to know those things. Why are you telling lies?

[Deleted]

They are not.
[...]You need an absolutely illegal database data to setup the server.

You cannot not to know those things. Why are you telling lies?

Tell that mmo-champion. they have to shut down. NOW! the people that ran allakhazam, thottbot? wowhead people? run! run to places you cannot be prosecuted for something that is completely legal in the US. perhaps one should tell you that "You cannot not to know those things"... gosh. why are YOU telling lies?

edit: go watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLWY7fCXUwE
feel free tu jump forward to 12:41 and onwards.
That presentation is by someone that was fed up with the excuse of bios = illegal and pretty much rewrote megaman 1-6 for a contract to emulate something, by analyzing how the emulator works... which is just so... dumb - but easier than to argue to death that bios = legal

[Tackhisis]

the people that ran allakhazam, thottbot? wowhead people? run! run to places you cannot be prosecuted for something that is completely legal in the US

Copyright violation is not legal in the USA, I assure you. At least officially, all those sites make a fair use of the copyrighted content for reference purposes. Creating a functional copy of a game is not a fair use.

the excuse of bios = illegal and pretty much rewrote megaman 1-6 for a contract to emulate something

Using copyrighted BIOS code is illegal. Legal emulators do not use it, so what you write is non sequitur.

Also, emulators are absolutely useless because they have nothing to emulate: all assets are copyrighted, and unless Nostalrius had created their own world with all the new zones, quest texts, and books, it is 100% illegal.

[Vash The Stampede]

Copyright violation is not legal in the USA, I assure you. At least officially, all those sites make a fair use of the copyrighted content for reference purposes. Creating a functional copy of a game is not a fair use.

When you're making a WoW server, as long as you're not using data stolen directly from Blizzard, it's legal. Things like geodata, quest text, page texts, etc. etc as @Tackhisis points out, is probably going to fall into fair use.

That's like if Steve Urkel sues Life Line for using the phrase "I've fallen and cant get up!". Even if they do, there's legal ways around it. Just change the meaning to "I've fell and can't get up" and there's your legal loop hole.

Using copyrighted BIOS code is illegal. Legal emulators do not use it, so what you write is non sequitur.

The only emulator I know of that requires a BIOS is PCSX2. All other emulators I've used can use a HLE BIOS, which is just a fake BIOS to run the game.

Also, emulators are absolutely useless because they have nothing to emulate: all assets are copyrighted, and unless Nostalrius had created their own world with all the new zones, quest texts, and books, it is 100% illegal.

As long as Reverse engineering was used, and no code was directly stolen from the game, then it's legal. This is why projects like Wine, Dolphin, and CEMU haven't been sued to hell and back. If that's what Nostalrius did, then they did nothing wrong. Most private servers don't even distribute the WoW client anymore to stay somewhat within legal boundary from Blizzard.

The situation could be that they don't want to fight back against a company as big as Blizzard for something they do for free. Take for example the George Hotz situation where technically GeoHot was within his rights. Instead they settled in court and nothing came from this situation, probably because if it continued then Sony would lose and open up Pandora's box for other companies. Sony also sued Bleem! a Playstation emulator and just settled and bought the company. To this day none of that has any effect on other emulators and hacks being done.

Why hasn't Blizzard gone after all the other private servers? I'm sure when Nostalrius was taken down, three more private servers had popped up, and many more have popped up since. Much like Beem! and GeoHot, Nostalrius was the biggest and loudest, and were taken down to be made into an example. It costs Blizzard real money to even take down Nostalrius.

[Tackhisis]

Even if they do, there's legal ways around it. Just change the meaning to "I've fell and can't get up" and there's your legal loop hole.

No. You cannot change a word and claim your work is not a plagiarism and a copyright violation.

Things like geodata ... is probably going to fall into fair use.

Please name me any jurisdiction that considers creation a competing product as a fair use.

no code was directly stolen from the game, then it's legal.

Geodata is stolen from the game. Data files are stolen from the game. Intellectual property of Blizzard is stored on the server and used without permission. It is not legal.

[ThassiusCircle]

These aren't people who want to play Legion or newer expansions anyway. They should just let the community do their own thing and stop trying to ruin fun for those that want to play WoW how it used to be. I get why legally they can, but it seems similar to Nintendo saying no one can stream their games.

[Crysake]

These aren't people who want to play Legion or newer expansions anyway. They should just let the community do their own thing and stop trying to ruin fun for those that want to play WoW how it used to be. I get why legally they can, but it seems similar to Nintendo saying no one can stream their games.

they legally have to, not only can.

[Eleccybubb]

These aren't people who want to play Legion or newer expansions anyway. They should just let the community do their own thing and stop trying to ruin fun for those that want to play WoW how it used to be. I get why legally they can, but it seems similar to Nintendo saying no one can stream their games.

Streaming a game and running a private server are 2 completely different things. You think Nintendo wouldn't do something if someone made an exact clone of their games and gave them to people for free?

[Vineri]

Streaming a game and running a private server are 2 completely different things. You think Nintendo wouldn't do something if someone made an exact clone of their games and gave them to people for free?

No private server really has an exact clone (that I know of). Server data was never leaked that I know of, outside of public info. Even if they did, the question then recirculates, whether the clone is truly authentic. One may exist, who knows, but generally the scripting is left to private servers to code to mimic a version of WoW. Blizzard says they lost much of the code, so they can't prove either way - nothing to compare to.

Private servers are not likely to share source code anyways.

In any event, Blizzard seems to be unwilling to support fans with a Legacy version, yet they want to protect their IP. Speculation is they will release an official Legacy version. Up in the air, sadly.

Streaming is definitely different. Some games have tried streaming in the past, but one tiny "blip" leads to hostility between players and providers. I'm not a big fan - the way things got done in the past is fine with me .. client and server software communicating to provide an orchestrated experience.

I think the other poster didn't mean what we interpreted.

[Sithalos]

This thread is still a thing? Lol

INFRACTION

[Eleccybubb]

This thread is still a thing? Lol

Well yeah. People are still interested in the discussion. And it allows all topics related to the matter to be consolidated into this one big megathread.

[aethermachine]

hence the correct use of necro.

I disagree.

[tss]

Streaming a game and running a private server are 2 completely different things. You think Nintendo wouldn't do something if someone made an exact clone of their games and gave them to people for free?

This is such a lazy fallacy. There is no way to purchase vanilla gameplay from Blizzard. In fact, I'm pretty sure Nintendo looks the other way when it comes to "piracy" of products they no longer offer. It isn't taking a single cent from anybody. How can you even call that piracy?

[Herbert]

I disagree.

I disagree.

[Eleccybubb]

This is such a lazy fallacy. There is no way to purchase vanilla gameplay from Blizzard. In fact, I'm pretty sure Nintendo looks the other way when it comes to "piracy" of products they no longer offer. It isn't taking a single cent from anybody. How can you even call that piracy?

Correct but the game still exists and belongs to Blizzard so of course they aren't gonna let some random people set up servers based on vanilla and risk losing the rights to it. If something as huge as Nost ever happens again which sadly it won't then they will just go after them again with a cease and desist. Simple reason is they can.

[Vineri]

This is such a lazy fallacy. There is no way to purchase vanilla gameplay from Blizzard. In fact, I'm pretty sure Nintendo looks the other way when it comes to "piracy" of products they no longer offer. It isn't taking a single cent from anybody. How can you even call that piracy?

For most of the Nintendo library, no, they don't care. For virtual console games, they have been proactive to protect IP's. In this case, though, Nintendo actually monetizes games in question. It's a small % on the virtual console.

Nintendo even tries to restrict YouTube gameplay feeds. It's a small fraction of the 768 game library though. The "other" games they don't give a hoot about, because there isn't any income.

Makes folks wonder why Blizzard protects a game no longer in circulation (unless they intend to recirculate it sometime).

[Eleccybubb]

For most of the Nintendo library, no, they don't care. For virtual console games, they have been proactive to protect IP's. In this case, though, Nintendo actually monetizes games in question.

Nintendo even tries to restrict YouTube gameplay feeds. It's a small fraction of the 768 game library though. The "other" games they don't give a hoot about, because there isn't any income.

Makes folks wonder why Blizzard protects a game no longer in circulation.

Because as above despite it not being in circulation the game is still their property. I mean they should just fucking do the servers already. Runescape did and there is still a healthy balance between the newer Runescape and Old school. I'd happily play on a Wrath/Cata legacy server if they did that and still keep going with Legion. Of course the main target is Vanilla first .

[MuLLvaD3n]

Well this kinda died out, shocking.

[Eleccybubb]

Well this kinda died out, shocking.

Not really. People still discussing it just at less pace. Feel free to join in with some constructive posting.

[McNeil]

This thread is still a thing? Lol

INFRACTION

Well this kinda died out, shocking.

Why the hell do comments like these keep going? Its just another WoW topic that is open for discussion...