Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Eliseus]

New poll up.

https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/727918527680647168

[Deleted]

Mark is looking into feedback to bring to Blizzard. He just recently put a poll on his twitter if people who haven't here don't go mind putting your input.

https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/727891524239826945

Interesting that 83% so far want some sort of progression, whether it be actual progression on the server, or transfer from x server (which I personally think will kill these servers fast) with the majority wanting just a time-released.

The funny tweet is the candid guy who get insulted because he only ask one thing : better graphism. (Probably shadows, light, new models, spells, water, aliasing etc...).
"NO. BETTER GRAPHISM IS FOR WOD DUMB PLAYERS" seems to be a viable argument.

Woohoo.

[Thimagryn]

Luckily the initial claim was that people obviously want Classic. You guys made the claim that we only wanted it if it was free.

1. I'm pro-legacy, so when you say 'you guys', you're lumping my argument with things other people have said which aren't what I'm saying. Please stop that.
2. I never said we only want it if it's free. I'm saying Nost populations are not indicative of potential paying Legacy subscribers.

Granted many of people have already stated they would pay, the burdon of proof is upon you. Until you can give said proof. I'll refrain from speculating that all the people requesting a company to give them something that has had a monthly payment that has existed since WoWs release just want it all for free till you can prove otherwise. Logical reasoning isn't hard.

Except I'm not making any claims. I'm refuting your own statement that Private Server populations are clearly indicative of high interest in Legacy servers; which it remains to be unproven. So no, the burden of proof isn't on me, because I'm the one asking you how you know people won't be deterred by a subscription fee. You have evidence of what, a few vocal people who say they will pay to play? And that is supposed to represent all 250k people who have signed the petition?

The Petition proposes what people want to see; which is exactly what I signed. There are no facts surrounding how it will actually be implemented. Petition signers and Nost player population are not unified under one vision (yet). Some people will want to see progress, some people will only want Vanilla. Some people are willing to pay a sub, some people may not. And tbh, these are all things that polls will not answer, because people can vote Yes to seeing Legacy servers and still end up never playing them.

I want to see Legacy servers, but I don't share the same optimism that you do. When I voice my concerns and criticize your enthusiasm, it's because I deem your statements to be highly unrealistic to the point of fallacy. It has nothing to do thinking Legacy servers won't work if it were paid. If I were a large corporate entity, finding out if everyone who signs a petition is actually willing to pay money for what they've been getting for free is a damned big concern. This is something we simply need to wait and see.

[Worgoblin]

Vanilla server, with progressive content releases, similar to what Nostalrius did. I think they started at 1.3? And progress to 1.12 over a long period of time (1.5 - 2 years).

That would be my dream server. And maybe once it hits 1.12 open a TBC server and give the option of transferring your Vanilla toons to it. (I wouldn't, I don't like TBC, but I know many people who would love to do that)

[Eliseus]

He will do a new poll everyday he said btw to bring more data to Mark. Please vote if you care.

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1. I'm pro-legacy, so when you say 'you guys', you're lumping my argument with things other people have said which aren't what I'm saying. Please stop that.
2. I never said we only want it if it's free. I'm saying Nost populations are not indicative of potential paying Legacy subscribers.



Except I'm not making any claims. I'm refuting your own statement that Private Server populations are clearly indicative of high interest in Legacy servers; which it remains to be unproven. So no, the burden of proof isn't on me, because I'm the one asking you how you know people won't be deterred by a subscription fee. You have evidence of what, a few vocal people who say they will pay to play? And that is supposed to represent all 250k people who have signed the petition?

The Petition proposes what people want to see; which is exactly what I signed. There are no facts surrounding how it will actually be implemented. Petition signers and Nost player population are not unified under one vision (yet). Some people will want to see progress, some people will only want Vanilla. Some people are willing to pay a sub, some people may not. And tbh, these are all things that polls will not answer, because people can vote Yes to seeing Legacy servers and still end up never playing them.

I want to see Legacy servers, but I don't share the same optimism that you do. When I voice my concerns and criticize your enthusiasm, it's because I deem your statements to be highly unrealistic to the point of fallacy. It has nothing to do thinking Legacy servers won't work if it were paid. If I were a large corporate entity, finding out if everyone who signs a petition is actually willing to pay money for what they've been getting for free is a damned big concern.

Absolute drivel of nothing once more. Obviously trolling. Welcome to ignore.

[Thimagryn]

Absolute dribble of nothing once more. Obviously trolling. Welcome to ignore.

I can see how you can see anything that goes against your views as being trolling. But fair enough, continue to believe what you want to believe.

[Chaelexi]

Vanilla server, with progressive content releases, similar to what Nostalrius did. I think they started at 1.3? And progress to 1.12 over a long period of time (1.5 - 2 years).

That would be my dream server. And maybe once it hits 1.12 open a TBC server and give the option of transferring your Vanilla toons to it. (I wouldn't, I don't like TBC, but I know many people who would love to do that)

Cost of this would be way outside of the realm of feasible for Blizzard.

[Kyanion]

I can see how you can see anything that goes against your views as being trolling. But fair enough, continue to believe what you want to believe.

Yup Eliseus only cares about circle jerking with other pro-legacy people and trying to link twitter polls and stuff. Once someone has a good point that counters somethin said they give that response. They are a waste of time.

[Eapoe]

I can see how you can see anything that goes against your views as being trolling. But fair enough, continue to believe what you want to believe.

It's seriously not worth having a conversation with him. At this point, if he is truly ignoring everyone that is not praising his words and bringing up valid concerns against his points, then he is now to the point where he is the fanatical guy on the street corner shouting the praises. He uses the same blanket, nonsensical arguements he claims everyone uses against him and praises his as gospel while everyone else is anti Legacy. There is no middle ground. As you yourself have said, you are pro Legacy, but since you have stated something against his all-or-nothing mentality you are now anti Legacy.

[Eliseus]

Cost of this would be way outside of the realm of feasible for Blizzard.

That's part of my thinking. I want these servers, but asking for several servers of every expansion seems unrealistic to me. I don't know really if it is, but yeah.

- - - Updated - - -

Yup Eliseus only cares about circle jerking with other pro-legacy people and trying to link twitter polls and stuff. Once someone has a good point that counters somethin said they give that response. They are a waste of time.

Only if. Lawls. Good luck pointing out one thing in that that trolls post the contradicts anything. Can't even give a source to anything he argues. Funny though. No one has time for your guys fallacies. Instead of dealing with them, it's much easier to put you guys on ignore . Can't argue a fallacy.

[Eapoe]

New poll up.

https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/727918527680647168

Why doesn't he do a poll of how many people from the 250k petition would be interested in sending him $10 a piece to start up his own vanilla WoW server under his new company's name in a copyright "safe zone?"
Something else occurring to me, yes, I know the nostalgia feels and the want to bring back a grindy mmo in the vein of classic, but why not take all this time and energy to petition Blizzard on in game changes to try and capture that feeling and make the game a good in between of what pro Legacy AND retail want?
ProL's (I'm coining that term now), have used the arguement that it will give retail something to do in content droughts, but something occurred to me, you are asking me (as a retail player), to ignore everything I've done since I started (hard earned achievements/titles/mounts/gear) to go do all that again in some wierd attempt to just get right back to where I am. If a Legacy realm happened where nothing I did on retail mattered and vice versa, these would be separate experiences and close to being a separate game that why wouldn't I just go play a different game?

[Eliseus]

Don't forget to just vote, but maybe offer your opinion on the matter. May be something useful to him!

[Gavan]

Don't forget to just vote, but maybe offer your opinion on the matter. May be something useful to him!

Exactly, more information is always better than less. Especially on preferences.

Also, to those who think Blizzard can't afford 12+ servers (one of each type for each of the first 3 expacs), you're claiming that Blizzard can't afford that in their VM cluster, but is totally okay with the dozens of dead servers out there on the same cluster?

[Deleted]

Exactly, more information is always better than less. Especially on preferences.

.. from people who want private realms and nostalgia.

Yeah, there surely is no bias involved.

Sorry, yes, that is sarcasm.

[Sabever]

.. from people who want private realms and nostalgia.

Yeah, there surely is no bias involved.

Sorry, yes, that is sarcasm.

I have read too many of your stupid posts and now I have to opine. Sadly I picked this one. First I have to ask, if you don't care about Vanilla then why are you hellbent on making sure others can't enjoy it?

Next, you seem to not understand what is happening. Mark Kern is going to Blizzard and promote Vanilla. This poll is to those who want Vanilla. There is no... "I don't want Vanilla" option, for you. Unlike this thread, if you don't like one of those choices, you don't have a voice. His poll is to obtain information to present the type of server for Blizzard to put up. If you don't understand that, then no one is going to be able to help you. Because it would be a comprehension issue.

[Eliseus]

I have read too many of your stupid posts and now I have to opine. Sadly I picked this one. First I have to ask, if you don't care about Vanilla then why are you hellbent on making sure others can't enjoy it?

Next, you seem to not understand what is happening. Mark Kern is going to Blizzard and promote Vanilla. This poll is to those who want Vanilla. There is no... "I don't want Vanilla" option, for you. Unlike this thread, if you don't like one of those choices, you don't have a voice. His poll is to obtain information to present the type of server for Blizzard to put up. If you don't understand that, then no one is going to be able to help you. Because it would be a comprehension issue.

Yep, he sadly won't get it. He will probably respond to you with something not even relevant to the matter and yell at you that you are a vocal minority. This is why he is ignored by me. Point when the arguing isn't fun anymore and just a headache.

[Sabever]

WoD has literally nothing to do with Vanilla, most people quit because of lack of content and the huge failing of Garrisons. Levelling in WoD has nothing to do with it. I think the sub numbers rising should be credited to MoP and is likely in part because they made some huge deal about Orcs and War...yet again.

People keep talking about levelling as if it's super important - it isn't. Getting people out in the world with a reason to be there, is.

Content, basically.

All that said the WoD was fairly promising in the beginning and I enjoyed the first patch immensely, most of us simply ran out of things to do.

You can go on and keep believing this but I will address each part. If you don't think leveling is important, then we simply disagree. It is ok that you disagree with me.

But if you think people left WoD because of lack of content and garrisons, you are missing the big picture. WoD brought people back in giving them the perception that this would be somewhat akin to TBC. It wasn't. In that the people were not interacting with the world. Is that the fault of garrisons? In a way I can say yes but I think you are missing the point. The point is that all these players came back hoping that WoW would be more like old wow. For the reasons of garrisons and a ton of other reasons (LFG, phasing, fast leveling, no world interactions) it wasn't. Content is not just putting in more raids, more coding, more gear etc. Content is what you make of it. Vanilla content was not limited to AQ, MC or Naxx. The world was the content. You blaming content lulls is really a red herring. It isn't the lulls that caused people to leave, it is the game itself.

[Deleted]

Next, you seem to not understand what is happening. Mark Kern is going to Blizzard and promote Vanilla.

Vanilla, his own game, and himself. Mainly the last two.

There is no... "I don't want Vanilla" option, for you.

Thats the reason it is biased. Also, the people that vote on that poll are actually exactly those people only who want to turn back time.

His poll is to obtain information to present the type of server for Blizzard to put up. If you don't understand that, then no one is going to be able to help you. Because it would be a comprehension issue.

First of all, it is not up to him to collect feedback for blizzard. As you probably know, Mr. Kern is not working for blizzard anymore. Second, he acts as if he actually had a special voice in this story, while he mainly abused the debacle for his own PR. He is a freeloader, and not adding anything constructive to the discussion. Third, it is not he who designs world of warcraft, but bizzard. Abusing the case to get back to minority ideas of what WoW should become to even demand special development effort and to get his agenda going is surely not the right way.

He is able to give feedback to blizzard as like everyone of blizzards players. And he isnt much more. A player. If he even pays for the game anymore.

[Eapoe]

You can go on and keep believing this but I will address each part. If you don't think leveling is important, then we simply disagree. It is ok that you disagree with me.

But if you think people left WoD because of lack of content and garrisons, you are missing the big picture. WoD brought people back in giving them the perception that this would be somewhat akin to TBC. It wasn't. In that the people were not interacting with the world. Is that the fault of garrisons? In a way I can say yes but I think you are missing the point. The point is that all these players came back hoping that WoW would be more like old wow. For the reasons of garrisons and a ton of other reasons (LFG, phasing, fast leveling, no world interactions) it wasn't. Content is not just putting in more raids, more coding, more gear etc. Content is what you make of it. Vanilla content was not limited to AQ, MC or Naxx. The world was the content. You blaming content lulls is really a red herring. It isn't the lulls that caused people to leave, it is the game itself.

So what I'm getting for this is make Legion actually scale to level 160 that takes players roughly 11 days of played time (played, not actual), and then make getting 3 legendaries a requirement for even seeing the first raid, followed up by grinding out rep with 5 factions before being able to step foot into the next one, and then make everyone get BiS gear from the previous raid necessary to see the last raid implemented, which would only be released 5-6 months before the next xpac is released? Oh, I also forgot, make mobs hit really hard so you have to sit and eat after each one is killed. I mean, this would be slowed content that forces people into the world to "meet" each other, right?

[Sabever]

Vanilla, his own game, and himself. Mainly the last two.



Thats the reason it is biased. Also, the people that vote on that poll are actually exactly those people only who want to turn back time.



First of all, it is not up to him to collect feedback for blizzard. As you probably know, Mr. Kern is not working for blizzard anymore. Second, he acts as if he actually had a special voice in this story, while he mainly abused the debacle for his own PR. He is a freeloader, and not adding anything constructive to the discussion. Third, it is not he who designs world of warcraft, but bizzard. Abusing the case to get back to minority ideas of what WoW should become to even demand special development effort and to get his agenda going is surely not the right way.

He is able to give feedback to blizzard as like everyone of blizzards players. And he isnt much more. A player. If he even pays for the game anymore.

You really don't get it. Vanilla is happening. Sorry to disappoint you. Go on and pick another crusade then trying to ruin things that other people want.