Dutch Voters Reject European Union’s Trade Deal With Ukraine

[caervek]

The is a certain comedic value to all this: EU offers Ukraine a crappy deal, Ukraine's president refuses to accept deal as it's crappy and Russia are offering a better one, President is removed in coup by people who prefer the sound of crappy deal and replaced by new president who accepts crappy deal, EU citizens then begin protesting over deal being crappy for them too XD

You can never have too many "friends".

You can if you have a limited amount of money/resources and all a new friend would want to do is sponge money/resources.

[Aggrophobic]

The is a certain comedic value to all this: EU offers Ukraine a crappy deal, Ukraine's president refuses to accept deal as it's crappy and Russia are offering a better one, President is removed in coup by people who prefer the sound of crappy deal and replaced by new president who accepts crappy deal, EU citizens then begin protesting over deal being crappy for them too XD




You can if you have a limited amount of money/resources and all a new friend would want to do is sponge money/resources.

I'd rather pay a bit then let Russia sink their claws into Ukraine though.

[Shibito]

And the usual suspects are here. Just have the word Ukraine and they gather like bees on honey.

[DrMcNinja]

Huh, what?
I remember voting for a treaty with the Ukraine and not about European integration.

I would like to ask the media and politicians to keep this subject on what it is about.
This is not about the civil war.
This is not about the power of the EU.
This is not about Putin.
It's about a treaty between the EU and the Ukraine.

Still pains me to hear that people in line were discussing that we shouldn't infuriate Putin or how they love to vote against the EU. Those are the kind of sheep who I would gladly keep away from these kind of subjects.

[Krille]

We (The EU) should throw out Ukraine from EU until they can fix their countries parliament issues. I firmly stand behind the dutch voters on this subject.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd rather pay a bit then let Russia sink their claws into Ukraine though.

Ukraine is doing a great job in destroying itself.

[Acidbaron]

Okay, what am i missing here? It's been approved yes?

It was approved but not ratified by the EU.

Some context around this referendum before people start creating their own stories around and every politician is already pulling it to themselves with the biggest clown Wilders stating this is a signal for the netherlands to exit the EU, which is just false as polls around that still give a clear 2/3 advantage if not more for the netherlands wanting to remain in the EU.

Only around 32.7% of the dutch voters turned up, making it just valid as it needs 30% and there's a roughly 3% error margin. Around 60% of that voted no.
Reason people voted no can be put in big categories, people don't want the Ukraine to enter the EU or want further dealings with Ukraine a country plagued with corruption, since we all know what happend with Greece. Some people simply don't want Europe to expand further and want back to a smaller Europe with fewer but countries.

The netherlands has had a long history with being skeptic against the EU so this really isn't that surprising. The bad part of this is, if every nation starts doing this on everything you get an EU that can do nothing and while those who are poorly informed find that great it isn't, it just means decisions will get taken but things will just cost more money (look up the price for hosting a referendum in your nation.), more time and crucial things like the immigration wide EU policy ends up being delayed more and more so when it actually comes it is far too late and needs to be adjusted again.

[Ravenblade]

The Dutch govt. better take the short-term option and accept the results. At least the Dutch are allowed to vote on issues like that.

The way I see it is that now two years later the focus of the EU has shifted inwards rather than outwards, and the recent refugee crisis has shown that a lot countries prefer that. Slamming doors shut, erecting fences where there were supposed to be none anymore and establishing border controls oncemore, national parties on the rise. It doesn't need to add fuel to the fire who would want to take it to an even greater extreme. Rather have a few years of recollection and consolidation before taking any more moves. So: It doesn't need an eastward expansion of any kind - and let's be honest that'd be the next milestone after this association treaty. Especially an expansion where the EU or rather Germany becomes paymaster of yet another country, a move which would then be as usual taken by nationalists as "foreign invasion" and "German takeover". Especially the Ukraine with a fairly large border to Russia, and rampant and unresolved instability in the Eastern regions and an ever-begrudging Russian tsar waiting for things falling into place, unresolved cases of nepotism and corruption, it's a too big of a strategical risk to take. Which brings me to another point: the way Maidan and the aftermath was handled was the EU trying to be as bossy as the US when it comes to Russia while in essence not actually be capable of affording it due to continental proximity and history. Lack of sensibility and the establishment of an "either-or" stance has caused a lot of polarization. This is why you can see far right and far left activists usually being religiously pro-Russian while media and politics tried to instil some sort of pure anti-Russian stance into people which backfired.

Well, long story short: This hopefully gives the EU some thinking pause and some time to reflect. It's moments like these which can actually ensure the EU's constancy. The times where you could muddle through from treaty to treaty seemingly unopposed seem to be over.

[Deleted]

You can never have too many "friends".

Eh not sure about that. "Friends" wouldnt really cut it. I'd use "partners".
The problem in Ukraine is not only the massive amount of money needed to get them going (unless EU is willing to drop all standards for them, we ARE doing it with south america anyway importing meat (not approved yet) from countries that have less regulations). The problem is instability cause that is a long term issue. The political scenario in Ukraine is actually worrying.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd rather pay a bit then let Russia sink their claws into Ukraine though.

Why do you care, to be honest?

- - - Updated - - -

The Dutch govt. better take the short-term option and accept the results. At least the Dutch are allowed to vote on issues like that.

The way I see it is that now two years later the focus of the EU has shifted inwards rather than outwards, and the recent refugee crisis has shown that a lot countries prefer that. Slamming doors shut, erecting fences where there were supposed to be none anymore and establishing border controls oncemore, national parties on the rise. It doesn't need to add fuel to the fire who would want to take it to an even greater extreme. Rather have a few years of recollection and consolidation before taking any more moves. So: It doesn't need an eastward expansion of any kind - and let's be honest that'd be the next milestone after this association treaty. Especially an expansion where the EU or rather Germany becomes paymaster of yet another country, a move which would then be as usual taken by nationalists as "foreign invasion" and "German takeover". Especially the Ukraine with a fairly large border to Russia, and rampant and unresolved instability in the Eastern regions and an ever-begrudging Russian tsar waiting for things falling into place, unresolved cases of nepotism and corruption, it's a too big of a strategical risk to take. Which brings me to another point: the way Maidan and the aftermath was handled was the EU trying to be as bossy as the US when it comes to Russia while in essence not actually be capable of affording it due to continental proximity and history. Lack of sensibility and the establishment of an "either-or" stance has caused a lot of polarization. This is why you can see far right and far left activists usually being religiously pro-Russian while media and politics tried to instil some sort of pure anti-Russian stance into people which backfired.

Well, long story short: This hopefully gives the EU some thinking pause and some time to reflect. It's moments like these which can actually ensure the EU's constancy. The times where you could muddle through from treaty to treaty seemingly unopposed seem to be over.

Whoa man. What a great analysis.

[Independent voter]

LONDON — Voters in a Dutch referendum on Wednesday overwhelmingly rejected a trade and cooperation agreement between the European Union and Ukraine, casting doubt over the future of the accord and delivering a new blow to supporters of European integration.

After all votes were counted and reported to the election service of the national news agency, ANP, 61.1 percent rejected the pact and 38.1 percent voted for it, Dutch broadcasters NOS and RTL reported.

In addition, the turnout was 32.2 percent — above the 30 percent required for the result to be declared valid, the broadcasters said.

Before the final figures of the nonbinding referendum were announced, Prime Minister Mark Rutte, who had supported the accord, said that if the 30 percent threshold had been reached, Dutch ratification of the accord would probably not be possible.

In any event, the result will be seen as a sign of the fragility of public support for the European Union as it battles economic problems and an acute migration crisis caused in part by the civil war in Syria.

The Dutch referendum took place less than 80 days before Britons are to decide whether to leave the European Union, a decision that could have profound consequences for the 28-nation bloc.

Voters were asked to approve an association agreement intended to forge closer economic integration between Ukraine and the European Union, and which has already been approved by the Dutch Parliament and supported by the government.

Even through the vote was nonbinding, political analysts had argued that it would be hard for the government to ignore a no vote if the turnout exceeded the 30 percent threshold.

So the Dutch fear the Nouveau Soviets?

[Cybran]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ne...-idUSKCN0X70SJ

The European Commission will propose this month granting visa-free travel to Ukrainians despite a Dutch referendum vote against an EU-Ukraine agreement partly motivated by hostility to migration, a senior EU source said.

Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker promised Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko in March that the EU executive would put forward the eagerly awaited proposal in April, offering Ukrainians the most tangible benefit of closer ties at a time when a free trade deal has not yet borne fruit for their economy.

"It may look as if we're ignoring the Dutch voters, but we have to keep our word to Ukraine, which has met the conditions," the source said.

The proposal must be approved by a qualified majority of EU member states and by the European Parliament to take effect.

The anti-democratic EU has spoken. They will give Ukrainians and Turks visa free travel by the end of the year. On top of the 500 000 Syrians already prepared to be send by Turkey.