Mythic Challenges in Legion

[Gen4Glock21]

This is not how this works at all.

Set dungeon to mythic difficulty > walk into dungeon > complete an untimed mythic dungeon, just like a mythic dungeon on live.

From that mythic dungeon, you have a chance to loot a Mythic Keystone from the last boss. That keystone will say Level 2 and the name of a dungeon. Now you go to that dungeon. Place the keystone in the pedestal and hit Start. No ilvl requirement for any of this. This puts you in a timed Mythic 2 dungeon, where bosses no longer drop loot. Finishing the dungeon within the timer awards a chest that contains 840 gear. Finishing the dungeon very quickly can award multiple chests. The gear can be warforged/socketed/whatever, with a random chance for higher ilvl. You also get another Mythic Keystone that says Level 3 (or 4-6 if you completed the dungeon very quickly) and lists another dungeon. Rinse/repeat. The base ilvl for gear that drops from the chests is supposed to scale up with higher levels, but often on beta you're getting 840 gear from Level 3 and 4 as well.

On Tuesday, when the weekly reset happens, the chest in your order hall will contain a piece of loot. This piece is random stat/random slot and its ilvl is based on the highest level Mythic dungeon you completed the previous week, starting at 840 (level 2), and increasing by 5 every level. So if you completed a Level 6, your order hall chest will contain one piece of 860 ilvl gear.

There is no requirement for your gear to enter a mythic dungeon. You can complete a base mythic at 800 ilvl if you're willing to do that. The "ilvl cap" of the gear that drops is currently unknown, but from recent interviews looks to be the same ilvl as Mythic Raid gear of the current tier (probably somewhere around 900-950, which is a broad range but I don't personally know raid gear), which will drop in your chest from high level mythic completion.

If you don't make the timer in any dungeon your keystone is not replenished. You still get a chest at the end and can get a chest in your order hall at the end of the week, but you have to run the dungeon again faster to get to the next level keystone.

Also currently on live you don't have to have any ilvl to zone into mythic dungeons. You can breeze through them at 640 ilvl if you want to, they're pretty faceroll and don't require any specific gear/comp setup to enter or complete.

Cool did not know that and thank you for the better explanation of how it will work.

I will admit I am sort of disappointed they will not cap item levels or scale your gear down for the various mythic levels. Everyone complains that they want a challenge yet they still allow you to basically out gear the various modes by not either scaling down your gear for the particular mythic mode or capping it. I think if they capped the item level or scaled your gear down that would prevent groups from just stacking a group with the highest geared people while denying those just getting into mythic mode.

Still a far better system than we currently have, so that is a plus.

[Saiyoran]

Cool did not know that and thank you for the better explanation of how it will work.

I will admit I am sort of disappointed they will not cap item levels or scale your gear down for the various mythic levels. Everyone complains that they want a challenge yet they still allow you to basically out gear the various modes by not either scaling down your gear for the particular mythic mode or capping it. I think if they capped the item level or scaled your gear down that would prevent groups from just stacking a group with the highest geared people while denying those just getting into mythic mode.

Still a far better system than we currently have, so that is a plus.

This is one of the many things I'm going to miss. Having gear-scaled CMs in MoP and WoD let you have high level competition without the need for high-end raiding (though you did have to farm LFR for gear). In Legion's model, the people that I have been doing CMs with probably won't be able to compete after the first tier is over due to ilvl differences between mythic raiders and non-raiders. It also means that setting up an optimal comp for progressing high level dungeons is basically impossible since you can't reroll and gear an alt to the ilvl of the dungeons in a short amount of time, like you can on live.

Of course, if Mythic dungeon gear is actually as frequently acquired and of equal power to mythic raid gear, its possible dungeon-focused players can still compete, but I can't imagine Blizzard causing all the high-end raiders to have to farm Mythic dungeons for the entirety of the tier, judging by past reactions to similar systems.

[Spryte]

This is one of the many things I'm going to miss. Having gear-scaled CMs in MoP and WoD let you have high level competition without the need for high-end raiding (though you did have to farm LFR for gear). In Legion's model, the people that I have been doing CMs with probably won't be able to compete after the first tier is over due to ilvl differences between mythic raiders and non-raiders. It also means that setting up an optimal comp for progressing high level dungeons is basically impossible since you can't reroll and gear an alt to the ilvl of the dungeons in a short amount of time, like you can on live.

Of course, if Mythic dungeon gear is actually as frequently acquired and of equal power to mythic raid gear, its possible dungeon-focused players can still compete, but I can't imagine Blizzard causing all the high-end raiders to have to farm Mythic dungeons for the entirety of the tier, judging by past reactions to similar systems.

Pretty much all competitve CM times in WoD requires trinkets from HFC (Soul Capacitor and Mirror of the Blademaster), granted you could get them on normal.

However I do feel that no scaling gear kinda defeats the purpose of what Mythic+ was supposed to be.

[Saiyoran]

Pretty much all competitve CM times in WoD requires trinkets from HFC (Soul Capacitor and Mirror of the Blademaster), granted you could get them on normal.

However I do feel that no scaling gear kinda defeats the purpose of what Mythic+ was supposed to be.

I'm well aware of the gear requirements for current CM competition, but my team leveled at least 3 or 4 alts and got them full-bis geared with said trinkets within a week or two, which allowed us to play around with different comps before double shaman/hunter or triple shaman became so solidified (back when dk/druid was still dominant). Doing that in Legion is a huge time investment that involves farming out a lot of the highest ilvl gear in the game. Thats all I was trying to get at.

[Spryte]

I'm well aware of the gear requirements for current CM competition, but my team leveled at least 3 or 4 alts and got them full-bis geared with said trinkets within a week or two, which allowed us to play around with different comps before double shaman/hunter or triple shaman became so solidified (back when dk/druid was still dominant). Doing that in Legion is a huge time investment that involves farming out a lot of the highest ilvl gear in the game. Thats all I was trying to get at.

Yeah sorry, I meant to agree with you. Legion Mythic+ dungeons will be a lot more dependent on gear than CMs have ever been.

[Deleted]

You also get another Mythic Keystone that says Level 3 (or 4-6 if you completed the dungeon very quickly)

Hold on a second. Isn't 3 in the same group with 5 but not with 6? Would it make sense to go directly from 2 to 6 when the keystone of 2 will not have the NPC mechanics of the 3 to 5 bracket?

[Isheria]

1-3 is the 0 affixes version of the dungeon with just increased damage/health starting from 2, baseline version with no modifiers is now level 1 instead of 0.
4-6 is 1 affix
7-9 is 2 affixes
10-infinity is 3 affixes.

1-6 rewards baseline 840 ilvl loot
7-9 rewards normal mode loot +5 ilvls which is 855.
10-infinity rewards heroic mode loot +5 ilvls

Only the weekly chest rewards mythic ilvl loot. That's the current reward structure from mythic+ dungeons, all of the loot ofc can roll warforged/titanforged/socket etc.

[Deleted]

The only difference between Dungeons and Raids

Its not like its a whole other game.

That's true. To be perfectly honest I found challenge mode healing at the start of WoD harder than various hard forms of raiding with the gear that was available back then (5-6 levels before the challenge mode cap and without impressive trinkets). Then again half of that time was spend with pugs which increases the level of difficulty, but still there are forms of 5man gameplay that can be very challenging compared to some forms of raiding.

[Raiju]

LOL?

The only difference between Dungeons and Raids is raids have 4x as many people in them and the aoes you need to avoid, the abilitys you need to soak, and the fire to run from all hit harder and everything has more health.

Its not like its a whole other game. they still do the same rotation in mostly the same gear, same abilitys etc.

It pretty much is a whole other game unless you are just tunneling dps. For tanks & healers your roles are not only largely independent but you are working against a smaller group of players. Healers can't rely on aoe healing as much generally. Universally there's an increased focus on CC as many more forms of CC work on non-boss mobs. To add to that, trash is of actual relevance since in both CM's & Mythic dungeons trash is inclusive to the runs success & timer. The fights are also shorter, there's more terrain allowance (as things can be moved more than a boss generally can in a raid), etc.

All of this adds to a different experience to raids.

[Vaerys]

I guess you didn't notice that the new format also includes a completion timer?

The timer is intended to be more like 'defeat the content in a reasonable amount of time' rather than 'rush through this as fast as possible skipping every possible pack and cheesing it with invisibility item and weird tricks that are never used anywhere else, and by the way, don't make a mistake or else you get nothing'

[Dizzeeyooo]

'rush through this as fast as possible skipping every possible pack and cheesing it with invisibility item and weird tricks that are never used anywhere else, and by the way, don't make a mistake or else you get nothing'

you found gold challenge modes in mop/wod difficult I take it?

[Vaerys]

you found gold challenge modes in mop/wod difficult I take it?

They're challenging for someone just stepping in to check it out, which is what I was.
They're trivial for someone who has farmed a CM-bis set and has done them all 100 times.
Running dungeons against a timer isn't my idea of fun, so I didn't make it a point to become good at it.
If they gave good rewards, I might, which is why I'm interested in mythic plus, with a loose timer and real rewards.

[Deleted]

'and by the way, don't make a mistake or else you get nothing'

That seems like a regular timer to me. The compensation might not matter to those running it to progress. I wonder if there is truly no way to remove the timers from the system.

[Fragnance]

Legion Mythic dungeon skill lvl. Dungeons are completely different than raids. For example there are several Serenity members that are really bad at current challenge modes. 5 mans are completely different than raiding. I'm good at CM's and dungeons because that's what I do, but I'm pretty bad at raiding because it's not something I do or enjoy.

No not really, nice accusation though please link me some sick mop/wod runs before you spout shit about my guild and it's members

[Deleted]

Someone hit a nerve

[Fragnance]

Someone hit a nerve

Well without anything to currently back his words up, maybe he will show something for the record.
But I'm pretty sure the guy has accomplished less than my boys in Serenity and myself has done during our time in cms.

[Deleted]

without anything to currently back his words up

You are famous and people inspect your armories. They probably look at everyone's armory on the roster. He probably inspected a few that haven't had impressive challenge mode records, he didn't say all didn't, he said a few.

[Lillpapps]

No not really, nice accusation though please link me some sick mop/wod runs before you spout shit about my guild and it's members

http://www.wowprogress.com/character...hindoun/Rinmei
Here you go. No CM's done since Soul cap started getting used and all the times are with a random 5th.

Well without anything to currently back his words up, maybe he will show something for the record.
But I'm pretty sure the guy has accomplished less than my boys in Serenity and myself has done during our time in cms.

I can say that I'm not on your level, but you are also not the people I'm talking about. You are an experienced CM player.

You are famous and people inspect your armories. They probably look at everyone's armory on the roster. He probably inspected a few that haven't had impressive challenge mode records, he didn't say all didn't, he said a few.

This. I'm talking about some members that are streaming and are not experienced with CM's. That comment was also from Alpha just as Mythic+ was enabled.

What I tried to say was that there are people who run dungeons who are better at dungeons than those in even the best of the best raiding guild who are not running dungeons.

[Albimoo]

Legion Mythic dungeon skill lvl. Dungeons are completely different than raids. For example there are several Serenity members that are really bad at current challenge modes. 5 mans are completely different than raiding. I'm good at CM's and dungeons because that's what I do, but I'm pretty bad at raiding because it's not something I do or enjoy.

I get being proud of your achievements if you happen to be someone who does a bunch of challenge modes. But your ranks are a result of cheesing/zerging/comps/whatever, youre not a god-tier unique player. Most rank 1 times are because they found a skip/exploity thing that no one else has.

If you really think that the people who are in top 100 world guilds or, because it was directly brought up; Serenity, the best guild in the world by a longshot, youre delusional. The few that care do have good CM times and if the others dont its because they havent put the time in to try and figure it out.


Didn't really want to shit on your achievement because I get being proud of ranks/whatever but if you really believe that if those players put the time in they couldn't beat you, then I don't really know what to say.


I mean this entire line of thinking is pretty moot because no one will beat raiders if the gear isnt scaled like it currently is in CM's, so it will only be people with BiS mythic gear with the best Mythic+ times (if they even exist).

[Raiju]

I get being proud of your achievements if you happen to be someone who does a bunch of challenge modes. But your ranks are a result of cheesing/zerging/comps/whatever, youre not a god-tier unique player. Most rank 1 times are because they found a skip/exploity thing that no one else has.

Most are known widely hence 20/25 of the top ranks having near identical comps and similar times. There's a serious matter of execution using a wider ability set and different skills to a raid boss.

If you really think that the people who are in top 100 world guilds or, because it was directly brought up; Serenity, the best guild in the world by a longshot, youre delusional. The few that care do have good CM times and if the others dont its because they havent put the time in to try and figure it out.

Not in serenity I'd expect, but there are plenty in top 100 guilds who consider gold a challenge. There's an astounding level of bad in those groups.

Didn't really want to shit on your achievement because I get being proud of ranks/whatever but if you really believe that if those players put the time in they couldn't beat you, then I don't really know what to say.

This goes exactly the same for raids, by the way. If everyone put in the time at the start that the top guilds do the race would look very different. The experienced may still top for a couple tiers due to experience but after that there's no guarantee.

I mean this entire line of thinking is pretty moot because no one will beat raiders if the gear isnt scaled like it currently is in CM's, so it will only be people with BiS mythic gear with the best Mythic+ times (if they even exist).

Outside of tier sets / possible trinkets (that looks like they're avoiding stupid ones in raids anyway) theres no advantage a raider has in gear long term.