People against socialized medicine but fast to spread Gofundme links for sick friends

[Chingylol]

I have a guy on my Facebook from high school who's pretty far right Republican. Loves Trump, thinks Obama is the worst president in US history, screams about his 2nd amendment rights being trampled on, and links articles all day from Fox News and other right wing sites. About a month ago he posted a rant about liberals and socialism, and how things like Obamacare and socialized medicine are just plain dumb.

I check my Facebook earlier tonight, and his best friend got into a bad motorcycle accident earlier in the day. Crashed into a guard rail and flew into the trees. Doesn't look like he's doing good either. Immediately he sets up a Gofundme account for him and is spamming the link every hour. Basically it says that his friend doesn't have insurance, and is raising money to pay for hospital bills and any other costs that will occur for medical attention.

So I think to myself "This is the same mofo that IS SOOOO against socialized medicine which would cover his friends healthcare, but he has the nerve to go around begging for money for him".

Isn't it abit hypocritical?

[Natiry427]

That's because you don't understand the argument. Conservatives aren't greedy, selfish pricks who are against helping people, contrary to what liberal media will tell you. They believe exactly in how they are acting in your story: The PEOPLE should be able to donate and help others at their own discretion, and given the opportunities, have shown that they will. The government shouldn't be involved, as it has shown time and time again that it is too fiscally irresponsible to viably do this.

[Slant]

That's because you don't understand the argument. Conservatives aren't greedy, selfish pricks who are against helping people, contrary to what liberal media will tell you. They believe exactly in how they are acting in your story: The PEOPLE should be able to donate and help others at their own discretion, and given the opportunities, have shown that they will. The government shouldn't be involved, as it has shown time and time again that it is too fiscally irresponsible to viably do this.

So basically, your survival turns into a popularity contest? How nice.

[Raamm]

The biggest social welfare program in the history of the world is the U.S military.

The problem I have without socializing medicine is the economics of the thing just work out better if you socialize it.

[Natiry427]

So basically, your survival turns into a popularity contest? How nice.

You're "survival" is determined by your actions, yes. If you fuck your life up and can't afford health insurance, well I'm sorry man that sucks for you. Sorry to tell you, healthcare isn't a right despite what rainbow flaming dyed hair whalelord youtuber tells you it is.

And since you brought it up, that's another big problem conservatives have with socializing medicine. Not all medicine has to do with "survival". Should I have to pay for some emo 13 year old's weed perscription? Should I have to pay for women killing babies? No, I shouldn't.

[Chingylol]

Conservatives aren't greedy, selfish pricks who are against helping people, contrary to what liberal media will tell you.

And then you say...

If you fuck your life up and can't afford health insurance, well I'm sorry man that sucks for you.

[Slant]

You're "survival" is determined by your actions, yes. If you fuck your life up and can't afford health insurance, well I'm sorry man that sucks for you. Sorry to tell you, healthcare isn't a right despite what rainbow flaming dyed hair whalelord youtuber tells you it is.

And since you brought it up, that's another big problem conservatives have with socializing medicine. Not all medicine has to do with "survival". Should I have to pay for some emo 13 year old's weed perscription? Should I have to pay for women killing babies? No, I shouldn't.

If your state allows weed prescriptions or abortions based on medical decisions, who are you to suddenly decide what the doctor may or may not prescribe or do based on his medical education? Shouldn't you make sure legislation takes care of what is being prescribed or that abortion is illegal if you dislike it so much?

[nextormento]

The world view is consistent: it's not the state the one paying for shit.
People against universal health care are very often in favor of charity: each individual can *willingly* help some other, or some cause.
That is what your friend is doing: asking others for their support at will, rather than have the state take it from them.

If it's efficient, or sustainable is another issue altogether.

In short: the caricature of conservatism that posits they're greedy, or egoistical is absurd.

[Seranthor]

I have a guy on my Facebook from high school who's pretty far right Republican. Loves Trump, thinks Obama is the worst president in US history, screams about his 2nd amendment rights being trampled on, and links articles all day from Fox News and other right wing sites. About a month ago he posted a rant about liberals and socialism, and how things like Obamacare and socialized medicine are just plain dumb.

I check my Facebook earlier tonight, and his best friend got into a bad motorcycle accident earlier in the day. Crashed into a guard rail and flew into the trees. Doesn't look like he's doing good either. Immediately he sets up a Gofundme account for him and is spamming the link every hour. Basically it says that his friend doesn't have insurance, and is raising money to pay for hospital bills and any other costs that will occur for medical attention.

So I think to myself "This is the same mofo that IS SOOOO against socialized medicine which would cover his friends healthcare, but he has the nerve to go around begging for money for him".

Isn't it abit hypocritical?

One is a choice (the gofundme) the other isn't? Aren't folks supposed to be pro-choice? if you are REALLY in favor of everyone helping take care of everyone, the question becomes, have you donated?

[khalltusk]

How about you have a single payer system. Solves a lot of problems. When I needed surgery I just went to my doctor who sends details to the local hospital and I then get told what date my surgery was on. I then went into surgery and had my issue solved (minor surgery on my tail bone!).

As I pay national health insurance (single payer system in the UK) I did not get invoiced for it. This also means a single mother who may not work also gets the same care funded by people like me. This does not bother me as I know that regardless of my situation in life which could change I will get the same care as anyone else.

[Cradyz]

So it goes for all hypocrites who are unaware that they are. They have crafted a certain narrative in which reality is shaped to the specifics of their beliefs. It's why a third wave feminist can be sexist against men in the name of equality, it's why the religious right can build a biblical statue in front of a courthouse in the name of religious freedom, but deny other religious groups to do the same and it's why right wing conservatives who don't understand what socialized medicine is will set upo a socialist program of their own when they need it.

After all it doesn't have 'socialist' in the name, which makes it not so ofc...

[Acidbaron]

Yes, begging is a so much better alternative to a humane healthcare system

Perhaps we should let these people turn this into some sort of twitch alternative where they have to perform acts behind a camera and get rewarded with care after. Big Brother on a whole new level, those folks over there love reality shows and dislike caring for others so seems to be a win win situation!

[Deleted]

In Europe we have "socialized medicine" - We pay higher tax on it, pretty much up to 30% of our money goes to the government. (Northern Europe)

However it does not mean you get free treatment for everything. You get treated to survive, but not to abuse the system. In fact the doctors are very hesitant to write prescription medicine at all - if not vitally needed. You don't get sleeping pills, weed or antidepressants left and right - like you do in America.

Instead you get actual help. That's what the system is about, its to help society as a whole with everyone doing their part to contribute - and not take advantage of it.
Sure you get a few bad apples who try to abuse the system for their own gain, but these people are eventually weeded out and society looks down on wanks like that.

Until your society advances as a whole to a level where the vast majority is not self-serving sharks - then you will not be able to have nice things like that.

[Kokolums]

Conservatives can strongly believe in private charity. Conservatives believe private charity is a purer form of charity. Conservatives are against government control of such charities because they feel government is not truly altruistic and will corrupt the charity they control to promote the government.

[Release]

Conservatives can strongly believe in private charity. Conservatives believe private charity is a purer form of charity. Conservatives are against government control of such charities because they feel government is not truly altruistic and will corrupt the charity they control to promote the government.

Conservative rhetoric sigh. What do you mean exactly by "corrupt?" Who is benefiting? how are they benefiting? what do you think would befall America if it went single payer? Stop dealing in vagaries.

From where I stand the insurance industry in America is wholly corrupt anyway so your assertion that it would be corrupted by government seems a little silly.

[Grummgug]

The biggest social welfare program in the history of the world is the U.S military.

The problem I have without socializing medicine is the economics of the thing just work out better if you socialize it.

That's not true at all.

Cell phones are not a socialized product, yet the cost of cell phones have collapsed over the past 20 years. Everyone can afford one now. This happens with every product in the free market where you can increase supply and scale. Cell phones, TVs, computers, etc.

The problem with health care is that there is a bottleneck. That bottleneck is the supply of doctors. If we dramatically increased the supply of doctors, the cost of healthcare would collapse in the free market. You can do this several ways. You can declare that degrees in the field of medicine are free - the government picks up the tab for those. That would destroy a HUGE barrier. You could encourage doctors from overseas to move to the US. You could mandate that all schools need to provide an affordable degree in the medical field.

You can use all of these things to flood the system with doctors and medical practitioners. And then the free market would see a bidding war ensue to drive prices down.

In the end, you'd have a typical free market system will all the classic features: the best service and the lowest prices.

[Kokolums]

Conservative rhetoric sigh. What do you mean exactly by "corrupt?" Who is benefiting? how are they benefiting? what do you think would befall America if it went single payer? Stop dealing in vagaries.

From where I stand the insurance industry in America is wholly corrupt anyway so your assertion that it would be corrupted by government seems a little silly.

You think government programs cannot be corrupted? Really?

[Release]

You think government programs cannot be corrupted? Really?

What do you mean by corrupted? Do you mean senators etc siphoning off funds, hiring their friends, giving contracts to business they have associations with to get re elected?

That sort of corruption can be stopped before it even begins if you set it up intelligently with transparency and some sort of independent body to oversee it. The NHS in the UK isn't perfect and politicians argue constantly about it's funding, about the number of managers, managers pay compared to doctors etc.. However, I wouldn't call it corrupt and it seems to work for every other western nation.

[Antipathy1018]

Not sure how hard it is to understand the difference between socialized medicine and asking friends and family to help out.

On the one hand the GoFundMe guy is just asking friends and family if they would like to help out. If they can great if not then no harm no foul.

Socialized medicine just takes from everyone regardless if they would like to help or not.

Lets be honest here for a second. Ask yourself if you care about people outside of your social circle (friends and family) as much as you do for somebody you have never met and probably never will. I am willing to guess that most people would say that they do not. The degree of difference will vary from caring not at all for a stranger to caring almost as much, but there is still a difference. Conservatives just are willing to openly admit that there is such a difference.

[Kokolums]

What do you mean by corrupted? Do you mean senators etc siphoning off funds, hiring their friends, giving contracts to business they have associations with to get re elected?

That sort of corruption can be stopped before it even begins if you set it up intelligently with transparency and some sort of independent body to oversee it. The NHS in the UK isn't perfect and politicians argue constantly about it's funding, about the number of managers, managers pay compared to doctors etc.. However, I wouldn't call it corrupt and it seems to work for every other western nation.

You didn't answer my question, you just used a logical fallacy called "proof by example".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_example

Proof by example (also known as inappropriate generalization) is a logical fallacy whereby one or more examples are claimed as "proof" for a more general statement.[1]

This fallacy has the following structure, and argument form:

Structure:

I know that X is such.
Therefore, anything related to X is also such.

I dunno. You've kinda damaged your own credibility with that post.