A Post-Corporate Ruled World: Paradise?

[Bartumus22]

So, first off I want to be clear:I do have my own opinion on the subject, but I'm more interested in hearing the opinions of those here, as it represents a large cross section of the global community,and there are brains here that make mine look like Patrick's.


Ok. So. A lot of futuristic fiction focuses on governments either made up of or run by corperate entities. Usually or almost across the board, they are portrayed as money grubbing,evil, soulless and/or destructive without regard for consequences.
FF7, Avatar the movie by J. Cameron, Star Wars the first 3 episodes, etc. They all portray a world, a universe, or a society run badly or oppressed by a corporate empire. But is that really the truth? Sure, corporations are run for profit, and they do things to get ahead, to be sure. But would society as a whole suffer from this? Think about it. Profit or price wars, versus ideological wars. Corporate boardrooms versus the mess we have in every Capitol on every nation. They would take care of the individual , as it affects the bottom line. And maybe with the advancement of tech, there might be more opportunities for many Corp to compete, or a profit race, versus an arms race.

Here's my final thought: any Corp , no matter what, operates on a principle of profit. If most of their customer base is enslaved/oppressed/angry or just unhappy, how would they profit?
Think about it.

[Endus]

So, first off I want to be clear:I do have my own opinion on the subject, but I'm more interested in hearing the opinions of those here, as it represents a large cross section of the global community,and there are brains here that make mine look like Patrick's.


Ok. So. A lot of futuristic fiction focuses on governments either made up of or run by corperate entities. Usually or almost across the board, they are portrayed as money grubbing,evil, soulless and/or destructive without regard for consequences.
FF7, Avatar the movie by J. Cameron, Star Wars the first 3 episodes, etc. They all portray a world, a universe, or a society run badly or oppressed by a corporate empire. But is that really the truth? Sure, corporations are run for profit, and they do things to get ahead, to be sure. But would society as a whole suffer from this? Think about it. Profit or price wars, versus ideological wars. Corporate boardrooms versus the mess we have in every Capitol on every nation. They would take care of the individual , as it affects the bottom line. And maybe with the advancement of tech, there might be more opportunities for many Corp to compete, or a profit race, versus an arms race.

Here's my final thought: any Corp , no matter what, operates on a principle of profit. If most of their customer base is enslaved/oppressed/angry or just unhappy, how would they profit?
Think about it.

The simple truth is that we just need to look at history to see why a corporation-run world leads to massive suffering and heinous treatment of those under that corporate rule. Corporations have no obligation towards any citizens whatsoever, not that isn't forced upon them by some governmental force. If a corporation is a nation unto itself (effectively), then the ONLY reason it would care about anyone it rules over is if it can make more profit that way. If it could make more profit by harvesting a percentage of their population for organ sales, they'd do it.

We've been down that road, and it doesn't work.

[Deleted]

Corporations are the driving force behind pretty much everything and have always been.

But as the good old saying says: Everything in moderation.

[Theodarzna]

So, first off I want to be clear:I do have my own opinion on the subject, but I'm more interested in hearing the opinions of those here, as it represents a large cross section of the global community,and there are brains here that make mine look like Patrick's.


Ok. So. A lot of futuristic fiction focuses on governments either made up of or run by corperate entities. Usually or almost across the board, they are portrayed as money grubbing,evil, soulless and/or destructive without regard for consequences.
FF7, Avatar the movie by J. Cameron, Star Wars the first 3 episodes, etc. They all portray a world, a universe, or a society run badly or oppressed by a corporate empire. But is that really the truth? Sure, corporations are run for profit, and they do things to get ahead, to be sure. But would society as a whole suffer from this? Think about it. Profit or price wars, versus ideological wars. Corporate boardrooms versus the mess we have in every Capitol on every nation. They would take care of the individual , as it affects the bottom line. And maybe with the advancement of tech, there might be more opportunities for many Corp to compete, or a profit race, versus an arms race.

Here's my final thought: any Corp , no matter what, operates on a principle of profit. If most of their customer base is enslaved/oppressed/angry or just unhappy, how would they profit?
Think about it.

Corporations don't want that sort of world, neither do the particularly wealthy.

[Damajin]

The simple truth is that we just need to look at history to see why a corporation-run world leads to massive suffering and heinous treatment of those under that corporate rule. Corporations have no obligation towards any citizens whatsoever, not that isn't forced upon them by some governmental force. If a corporation is a nation unto itself (effectively), then the ONLY reason it would care about anyone it rules over is if it can make more profit that way. If it could make more profit by harvesting a percentage of their population for organ sales, they'd do it.

We've been down that road, and it doesn't work.

With the employee lists and the valuation of some corporations we can already say that some of them ARE nations unto themselves and therein lines the problem.

To deal with the OP: Once a corporation reaches that omnipotent level and is in control it, barring the idea of space exploration and expansion there works solely on maintenance and management of what it has. Profit on a singular planet basis does have a limit: everything. Multiple corporations who didn't act in cooperative efforts would still have room for profit and thus a stronger motive but once you get to the single entity is in control of everything place it stops being concerned about profit and switches to maintenance and management, which is going to be far more oppressive just in general nature.

[Bartumus22]

The simple truth is that we just need to look at history to see why a corporation-run world leads to massive suffering and heinous treatment of those under that corporate rule. Corporations have no obligation towards any citizens whatsoever, not that isn't forced upon them by some governmental force. If a corporation is a nation unto itself (effectively), then the ONLY reason it would care about anyone it rules over is if it can make more profit that way. If it could make more profit by harvesting a percentage of their population for organ sales, they'd do it.

We've been down that road, and it doesn't work.

Yeesh. That's bleak. I mean is their no chance of a corporate govt with morals? I mean aren't monarchies and corporations similar? And there have been both good and bad monarchies. Is there no chance of a marriage between Corp and govt that ends happily for us?

- - - Updated - - -

As the gentleman said, it's already happening in some parts. Happy ending? At all?

[Damajin]

Yeesh. That's bleak. I mean is their no chance of a corporate govt with morals? I mean aren't monarchies and corporations similar? And there have been both good and bad monarchies. Is there no chance of a marriage between Corp and govt that ends happily for us?

- - - Updated - - -

As the gentleman said, it's already happening in some parts. Happy ending? At all?

Most of the Western world is Corporatist now, and look how that's going. You should look at that as your window into how bad things could get, aka a whole lot worse if it was doctrine rather than just implied.

Monarchies act off Royal Perogative, let's not give that notion to Corporations.

[Independent voter]

Corporations taking over the world is a kind of light dystopian fiction, the other dystopian future being after a major disaster usually nuclear war.

Corporations are never going to be more powerful than the government. The people who legislate can always legislate corporations out of existence.

Fun to think about but in reality will never happen. When people get angry and look for those to blame, do you want them blaming your corporation or some elected representative.

[Endus]

Yeesh. That's bleak. I mean is their no chance of a corporate govt with morals? I mean aren't monarchies and corporations similar? And there have been both good and bad monarchies. Is there no chance of a marriage between Corp and govt that ends happily for us?

Even a monarchy has some sense of duty towards its people; the "monarchy" part is about who makes the decisions, not to whom you bear responsibility. Feudal lords in the Middle Ages had a strong duty towards their peasants, and that was the entire role that the heirarchy was based upon; if they didn't defend their peasants, those peasants would either leave to find another lord to work for, or rebel against his ineffective leadership.

Doesn't mean it wasn't often brutal, but they weren't slaves, either. Life overall was brutal, for all classes, at the time.

Corporations have no such duty or obligation to their customers. Their duties are to their shareholders. If they could get away with selling arsenic under the label "Gramma Nanna's Healthy Baby Pablum", and their shareholders liked that idea, and they could make a lot of money in an acceptable time frame, a corporation would. The only things preventing that would be the morals of the individual leadership (and this would often get them fired, for going against the corporate interests), or a governmental agency preventing them from doing so.

And again; I'm not just making stuff up. That kind of thing actually happened. With pretty shocking regularity.

[phillys]

beats their version of the future: the post-democratic society of a One World Government, completely unelected. no thanks. And yes, they actually do openly talk about this. Not a conspiracy. At least one fairly major political party where I live is promoting it as one of their major electoral platforms for this year's election.

[Grummgug]

The people who run corporations actually hate corporations too. The reason is they are wealthy and powerful and running a corporation only means risking their wealth and power. Competitors could rise up and usurp them with a better business model. Their solution is to push society to switch to socialism. The trick is to promise the public a bunch of free stuff if they switch to socialism. The reality is that, once the switch is made, the wealthy and powerful can end corporations and just outlaw competition. And rule you with an iron fist.

They don't want to be CEOs in a free market. They want to use their wealth and power to become Lords and Kings. The mechanism to do that is called socialism.

The free market is flawed but it beats the alternatives. As the founding fathers of america said "You have a republic....if you can KEEP it!" They were warning you of something like socialism.

[Bartumus22]

I guess that answers my question. Yeesh. I was hoping for a less bleak answer but I hear ya.

[taliey]

Do you think greed leads to prosperity?

[Celista]

Here's my final thought: any Corp , no matter what, operates on a principle of profit. If most of their customer base is enslaved/oppressed/angry or just unhappy, how would they profit?
Think about it.

To answer that question, first you have to ask yourself: who is John Galt?

[Tijuana]

So, first off I want to be clear:I do have my own opinion on the subject, but I'm more interested in hearing the opinions of those here, as it represents a large cross section of the global community,and there are brains here that make mine look like Patrick's.


Ok. So. A lot of futuristic fiction focuses on governments either made up of or run by corperate entities. Usually or almost across the board, they are portrayed as money grubbing,evil, soulless and/or destructive without regard for consequences.
FF7, Avatar the movie by J. Cameron, Star Wars the first 3 episodes, etc. They all portray a world, a universe, or a society run badly or oppressed by a corporate empire. But is that really the truth? Sure, corporations are run for profit, and they do things to get ahead, to be sure. But would society as a whole suffer from this? Think about it. Profit or price wars, versus ideological wars. Corporate boardrooms versus the mess we have in every Capitol on every nation. They would take care of the individual , as it affects the bottom line. And maybe with the advancement of tech, there might be more opportunities for many Corp to compete, or a profit race, versus an arms race.

Here's my final thought: any Corp , no matter what, operates on a principle of profit. If most of their customer base is enslaved/oppressed/angry or just unhappy, how would they profit?
Think about it.

I find in interesting that, in Star Wars, The Empire is portrayed as the ultimate evil, and that is interpreted by you to mean its corporate. There is nothing corporate at all, in any way, with The Empire in any Star Wars movie. But its interesting that you find it that way, since to you that is the ultimate evil. I wonder if others see things in it that are not there, based on their own personal ideology.

[Caolela]

The people who run corporations actually hate corporations too. The reason is they are wealthy and powerful and running a corporation only means risking their wealth and power. Competitors could rise up and usurp them with a better business model. Their solution is to push society to switch to socialism. The trick is to promise the public a bunch of free stuff if they switch to socialism. The reality is that, once the switch is made, the wealthy and powerful can end corporations and just outlaw competition. And rule you with an iron fist.

They don't want to be CEOs in a free market. They want to use their wealth and power to become Lords and Kings. The mechanism to do that is called socialism.

The free market is flawed but it beats the alternatives. As the founding fathers of america said "You have a republic....if you can KEEP it!" They were warning you of something like socialism.

You have "Lords & Kings" mixed up with what socialism is. That's monarchy which is on the opposite side of the political spectrum from socialism.

The Founders were warning us not about socialists, but about abusive monarchies, which is why they fought against the monarchy of King George III's England.

Socialism in the basic sense would be workers (not shareholders) are the owners of the means of production, and wealth distribution is relatively equalized. Your posit about CEOs wanting wealth and power to become "kings" and "rule with an iron fist" is corporatism/fascism taken to its extreme, not socialism.

[Zenotetsuken]

I find in interesting that, in Star Wars, The Empire is portrayed as the ultimate evil, and that is interpreted by you to mean its corporate. There is nothing corporate at all, in any way, with The Empire in any Star Wars movie. But its interesting that you find it that way, since to you that is the ultimate evil. I wonder if others see things in it that are not there, based on their own personal ideology.

I would agree, and disagree. I think The Empire is a pretty realistic view of what an unrestricted corporate government would look like. The expand throughout the universe eating everyone and everything, giving planets/people three choices "Join, be enslaved, or die". They then use those people who join as cannon fodder in their ever outward expansion, the people who are enslaved are used to produce the resources for their expansion, and they use the dead as a warning to not cross them.

[May90]

So, first off I want to be clear:I do have my own opinion on the subject, but I'm more interested in hearing the opinions of those here, as it represents a large cross section of the global community,and there are brains here that make mine look like Patrick's.


Ok. So. A lot of futuristic fiction focuses on governments either made up of or run by corperate entities. Usually or almost across the board, they are portrayed as money grubbing,evil, soulless and/or destructive without regard for consequences.
FF7, Avatar the movie by J. Cameron, Star Wars the first 3 episodes, etc. They all portray a world, a universe, or a society run badly or oppressed by a corporate empire. But is that really the truth? Sure, corporations are run for profit, and they do things to get ahead, to be sure. But would society as a whole suffer from this? Think about it. Profit or price wars, versus ideological wars. Corporate boardrooms versus the mess we have in every Capitol on every nation. They would take care of the individual , as it affects the bottom line. And maybe with the advancement of tech, there might be more opportunities for many Corp to compete, or a profit race, versus an arms race.

Here's my final thought: any Corp , no matter what, operates on a principle of profit. If most of their customer base is enslaved/oppressed/angry or just unhappy, how would they profit?
Think about it.

I think this crusade against "evil corporations" in the society we see nowadays is just one of those hot ideas that will pass eventually, giving place to a more rational viewpoint instead. Same way in 60-s it was "evil government", in 10-s it was "evil uneducated masses", and so on.

While it is true that corporations, like any businesses, mostly are concerned about profit and are willing to walk on the heads of people to achieve their goals, it so happens that their success also depends on the quality of product they release: the higher the quality, the more people will buy it (in general; of course, there are other elements, such as ads, contributing to this), the larger the profit. Corporations are needed, and they are an essential element of any healthy economy. Corporations should not overstep their playing field, but that's what anti-monopoly laws are for.

Problems start mostly when either anti-monopoly laws don't work well, or economy is based on corruption and, hence, causes corporations to earn profit without producing anything of much use. Even worse when the government itself works as a corporation, a dominating one at that, essentially working as a monopoly on everything. And, since corporations tend to move around insane sums of money, corruption becomes very hard to contain, especially since the government members tend to have personal shares in those corporations and tend to push the harmful parts of their agendas more often than not. But that is the problem of economy and politics in general, not related to the corporations as such.

[Tijuana]

I would agree, and disagree. I think The Empire is a pretty realistic view of what an unrestricted corporate government would look like. The expand throughout the universe eating everyone and everything, giving planets/people three choices "Join, be enslaved, or die". They then use those people who join as cannon fodder in their ever outward expansion, the people who are enslaved are used to produce the resources for their expansion, and they use the dead as a warning to not cross them.

What are they selling, then? At no point are they ever making anything and selling it. They buy the clones. They buy the droids. They never talk about profits or sales in any way at all what so ever. They seem to be a standard evil dictatorship, and an ineffective republic before that. I don't see how anyone could see them as corporate. If you want a corporate evil empire, I would say something like House Harkonnen in Dune.

[Zenotetsuken]

What are they selling, then? At no point are they ever making anything and selling it. They buy the clones. They buy the droids. They never talk about profits or sales in any way at all what so ever. They seem to be a standard evil dictatorship, and an ineffective republic before that. I don't see how anyone could see them as corporate. If you want a corporate evil empire, I would say something like House Harkonnen in Dune.

There is no longer a financial motivation to do things when you no longer need money. The currency then becomes power. So you are selling "Join or Die."

A corporate government, a corporation, and a government all will become the same thing at some point without opposition.