A question to top 500 guilds

[Adramelch]

I realize the main reason some raid leaders play at least 5 classes is because they can have a feel of what their players actually can do so they can be assigned jobs properly. That of course is impossible for the majority of players.

You don't need to play the classes to know what they can or cannot do for the most part.

[Dracodraco]

You don't need to play the classes to know what they can or cannot do for the most part.

I would argue that you need to play the roles to get an understanding of the general jobs you have to do in an encounter though. You're right that it's fairly basic to know "Ele shamans has no burst but great AOE, hunters has great singletarget burst but only AOE every 20 seconds with barrage, Unholy DKs has great passive AOE" and so forth, but as a ranged dps you aren't going to have any real knowledge of how the tank-related timings such as deathcallers+glaives works, and what issues tanks faces depending on what tactic you use. Need to experience it first hand to understand that some things make it significantly harder to accomplish a goal on the other team's end.

[Adramelch]

I would argue that you need to play the roles to get an understanding of the general jobs you have to do in an encounter though. You're right that it's fairly basic to know "Ele shamans has no burst but great AOE, hunters has great singletarget burst but only AOE every 20 seconds with barrage, Unholy DKs has great passive AOE" and so forth, but as a ranged dps you aren't going to have any real knowledge of how the tank-related timings such as deathcallers+glaives works, and what issues tanks faces depending on what tactic you use. Need to experience it first hand to understand that some things make it significantly harder to accomplish a goal on the other team's end.

Yeah I don't doubt that. But that's kind of a different question than the one in hand, I feel.

[Dracodraco]

Yeah I don't doubt that. But that's kind of a different question than the one in hand, I feel.

I think it's pretty much the same - I'm one of those GMs that plays every role so that I can get a feel for the different tasks. DK tank, Disc priest, DPS hunter - sure, I don't know exactly how shadow priests work apart from "their buff falls off if they do anything but tunnel so let them tunnel unless they absolutely need to switch", but I know ranged movements, how you deal with abilities etc.
Same goes for tank and healer, and you play the roles in order to learn the role-specific job. Not to learn how every single class functions (because that's a fucking full-time job). You rely on your raiders communicating specific class issues, while a good GM understands overall role-issues.

[Riistov]

Then you should maybe already know these things and discuss them with your officers instead of cluelessly asking on a forum.

OP asked a polite question, I really don't see why you have to be needlessly snarky about it.

[Relapses]

OP asked a polite question, I really don't see why you have to be needlessly snarky about it.

The internet is practically fueled by sarcasm.

And uh, judging from the ensuing drama in the next few pages there was a pretty obscure motive behind the OP's question anyway.

[Marrilaife]

guild that is strugglying with recruiting and attendance, gets what they can. the question is do you hold on them or invest on them in order to raid, or are you adamant and harsh so that you miss raids, if you can't get proper ones?

Then you shouldn't be asking your question towards "top 500 guilds" as those aren't forced to recruit every living body. They have enough apps to pick and choose and discard bad apples without worrying if they'll have enough ppl tomorrow for raid.

I'm not in top 500 guild. Mine is around 1k atm. But I know a person in 400-something guild that just told me a story his guild kicked a trial not for bad play or lack of skill but for being a smartass and making condescending comments towards guildies in a raid while still on trial. Reason? Doesn't fit into guild culture / atmosphere. Yes, they can easily afford kicking someone for being a dick. I'm pretty sure they could afford kicking one for refusing to learn or follow orders too.

[Adramelch]

I think it's pretty much the same - I'm one of those GMs that plays every role so that I can get a feel for the different tasks. DK tank, Disc priest, DPS hunter - sure, I don't know exactly how shadow priests work apart from "their buff falls off if they do anything but tunnel so let them tunnel unless they absolutely need to switch", but I know ranged movements, how you deal with abilities etc.
Same goes for tank and healer, and you play the roles in order to learn the role-specific job. Not to learn how every single class functions (because that's a fucking full-time job). You rely on your raiders communicating specific class issues, while a good GM understands overall role-issues.

Yeah but when I say it's a different question than the one in hand I mean, that OP seems to be talking about stuff like "Kite the voidfiends", "Do Runes on Kormrok", "Focus more on Resonance", where just a general understanding of how the spec works should be enough. Of course, the more you know, the better you are at assigning stuff and analyzing logs, that's a fact.

[Ahovv]

Depends. If you're confident in the reasoning behind asking them to perform such actions, then sure, go ahead and replace them. I can remember many times where I refused to do something because I knew it didn't make sense given the circumstances, and I explained why to others.

[Deleted]

If people don't listen then they don't make it past a trial in a top 1000 guild never mind 500.

[Toastyame]

Everyone is there to progress, not to bitch and complain and delay raid.

If somebody does have a conflict of interests and it can't be maintained among whispers or after raid, they usually get sat for the night, unless they're a tank or our only disc in which case we all nod our heads and agree with their bullshit. Usually the only arguments that are had are about how a fight is fought, the strat, etc which is why a lot of guilds usually will have all that on the forums before raid, so people can debate prior to actually getting inside.

[Dsc]

This is why you run them through a trial. Examples being 10 man Heroic rag as we farmed 25H DS. Bring em in for thorum and Freya while working no lights. See how they do.

Usually after a night you know what you have.

Don't recruit kids or chicks that advertise being a chick repeatedly and everywhere.


Recruitment used to be hard, if you invested the gear and lockouts keying someone perhaps you would put up wiylth a little more.

Attunments are gone. A track record of timely progression and history is available in armory and WOW progress.


Lots of raiders, easy to be selective.

[Coldvibes]

I bet this has to do with a hunter refusing to do bitch duty, even though hunters are generally the best class at doing bitch duty on progression.